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"Poly" usually refers to polyethylene pipe (PE pipe, IPS [iron pipe size]), used in well systems and city water service lines.
PEX is crosslinked PE (CTS [copper tubing size[).
Polybutylene is PB (CTS) and no longer made in the US but is the most widely used tubing in the rest of the world although PEX may be catching up.
There are all kinds of misinformed gossip type stories concerning plastics in comparison to copper. Copper can easily add copper to the water and too much (over 1.3 ppm) is a heath concern and no plastic adds anything to water; they are inert. Also, nothing in water can harm plastics but, copper can be seriously damaged by things found in all waters; such as certain types of nonharmful bacteria, H2S, high TDS DO and CO2, chlorides, sulfates, stray electrical currents etc. etc..
PEX done in branch and tee like copper, is not the best system, the best to get all the bennefits of PEX, is a manifold and separate homeruns to each fixture; no tees, elbows and only 2 fittings, one on each end. Then you can run a size smaller from the .
Other plastics are PVC (IPS) and CPVC (CTS).
All plastics have a lower pressure loss/foot than copper. The poly types are much more 'freeze proof' than copper which has none. And plastic can not conduct electricity.
Nails and screws are always supposed to miss all water, electric and sewer lines. Or we could say all water, electrical and sewer lines are supposed to be properly protected from nails and screws etc.. Mice and all other rodents should be kept out of all buildings so they can't chew on things they can damage.
There are all kinds of misinformed gossip type stories concerning plastics in comparison to copper. Copper can easily add copper to the water and too much (over 1.3 ppm) is a heath concern and no plastic adds anything to water; they are inert. Also, nothing in water can harm plastics but, copper can be seriously damaged by things found in all waters; such as certain types of nonharmful bacteria, H2S, high TDS DO and CO2, chlorides, sulfates, stray electrical currents etc. etc..
O' My God, do you mean I have been getting all that copper poisoning for years and years now. Must be why my business is still growing, that copper is expanding inside my body. And I replaced all the lead pipes so it would not happen.
Start this rumor in your town. Rats love to chew on PEX, they love the nutty taste and will spit on places they have just chewed. plus they will carry small pieces back to the nest and knit booties for the young. with those booties, you never hear them coming when they grow up. They can even climb walls in four paw drive.
That and all that H2S, TDS, foaming natural oils, spent baterical bodies and other assorted mayhem that is found in those killer copper pipes. We should pass a law outlawing killer copper in all its forms. Please cut it out immediately. I will be around in the morning to collect all of it and take it to a proper licensed disposal site. Please give me the most heavy pieces first.
Don't know what might be a suitable replacement material that rats will leave alone. Maybe berylium tubes with Crapalloy coatings. I'm glad we have caught this major problem in time. You would have thought the Government would have warned us of the coming meltdown.
It is always good to stick strickly to the facts as they are known to us.
Small speculations can be permitted on weekends. It is all about framing of problems before we jump to our fully intended conclusions in spite of the said facts. I'm thinking we have got there just in time.
opper pppoisoning is why you are supposed to run the water for a while when you get back from vacation. The water sitting inthe pipe can build u some icky copper levels
I've lived with killer copper for more years that I like to admit. I've lived with lead main supply lines. I've lived in houses that had no running water.
I been exposed to abestos, I've been hit big time by that deep pentrating radon. I've got atom bomb crap in my bones. If it was a hazard, I've probably had some of it. I've ate stuff in many countries I didn't have a clue what it was, it helps to call it all chicken.
With my luck I will probably die at 127 shot by a jealous husband. Finally die from that killer copper jacket they put over the lead in the 16 357 rounds that it took to finally put me down.
Just think how long you can survive if you only drink out of gold cups with water directly dipped out of the Fountain of youth. I think that is somewhere in Florida. More than likely the feed lines into the fountain are killer copper. As they are at the police station, city hall, the local fast food, hospital, dance hall and the welfare office.
If that copper had any real power they would be dropping like flies all over the place. The stuff is everywhere, probably brew beer in the stuff.
Cosmic, I'm just the messenger but... IIRC too much copper effects the central nervous system including the brain which may lead to a loss of mental abilities, like logical cognitive thinking, which slowly shows up after years of exposure but only to observers of the person, the person can't 'see' it for themselves. Sad to say, I'm concerned that I may be seeing some of that in your responses.
Cosmic, I'm just the messenger but... IIRC too much copper effects the central nervous system including the brain which may lead to a loss of mental abilities, like logical cognitive thinking, which slowly shows up after years of exposure but only to observers of the person, the person can't 'see' it for themselves. Sad to say, I'm concerned that I may be seeing some of that in your responses.
Years and years of copper in so many homes and the only problem I have ever heard about is in the use of soldier continng lead. No doubt soon we will be hearting that the vapors from plex plastic cause brain damge or cancer. God help ypou if your city water system is years old because the new pipes you have instlled is nothing comapred to the assotment of mterials they have been made from. Get your water test from from a fauset if your wroiied.
Where is the real danger with your water supply................???????
We have just learned all the pap about the materials in the water supply system is going to kill us. That killer copper will get us for sure, according to some. But where is the real danger?????
I would humbly submit that it is at a far more simple level and far more deadly. Does your water supply system ever issue boil orders and do you know about them and heed the warnings in time?
Those boil orders can be for a ton of reasons, usually due to maintenance, errors, breaks, natural diasters, systems losing pressure below some value, etc. In some cases the water that is already out of the treatment plant may no longer be safe when it arrives at your house. Your fancy PEX is totally worthless in saving you from grave immediate harm.
In fact in many areas the boil orders are so messed up that you have already drank a bunch of the water long before you ever knew it was potentially dangerous, lots of places you probably never have a clue it was required. The notification process is so critical. Many very large systems probably don't even do the notifications by any effective means.
In my local area this became such a concern, the danger is very real, that they have included it in a automated telephone notification to very house affected in a super timely manner to include within a few minutes of being required. Some maintenance procedures they can actually issue the order in advance to only the exact areas that will be affected. In many cases they do maintenace and we get back flow conditions where water actually drains back out of the house into the system, potentially even causing partial vacuums to occur in the mains, ground water can be sucked into the mains, they are not designed with seals to prevent it. I can usually hear my hot water heater making noises under these conditions.
So the real danger might not be what is assumed. Very basic stuff and potentially very deadly. Changing out my killer copper will offer me zero additional protection. It does help to focus on the real threats.
The EPA is changing the rules on water systems. My local system is going to be hugely impacted in very many ways. I doubt one of those changes will be to declare copper a danger and killer. There are so many other things that will get you first. The materials in any system are probably not the prime danger, water quality in all its aspects is.
Do all these worry wart types really understand all the potentially hazardous materials that might be used in a water system? Or all the materials that might be injected by error???? And they are worried about killer copper and giving it such a high priority. What a waste of talent.
Cosmic, I don't know what credentials you have but I've been in the water quality improvement industry for 22+ yrs now. The EPA Lead and Copper Rules were put in place in roughly 1989 or 1990. And all boil water advisories are due to actual or potential harmful bacteria contamination.
Copper tubing can and does add copper to the water, too much is not good for humans or pets.
"Copper tubing can and does add copper to the water, too much is not good for humans or pets."
Two statements that may not even be related to each other, or true for that matter.
Load of crap if you ask me.
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O' No.......... Killer Copper
