Switched receptacle problems (Home Depot, ceiling, install, room)

[sbanawan]

Ok, I may have done something stupid yesterday - or this was a horrible coincidence. I was trying to add a receptacle by splicing a wire to an existing receptacle. The existing one is a middle of the run one but I didn't think that would matter. I cut the wire and added a 3 wire push-in connector so I could splice in another wire. For unrelated reasons, I decided not to add the receptacle but I had already cut the wire so it's got those connectors (with empty 3rd slots) connecting the cut wires.

Anyway, I made sure that I had connected all 3 wires - black, white and ground - properly and checked the outlet, as well as the outlets to the left and right of that one. Everything seemed ok.

Then last night, I went to flip on the light attached to the switched receptacle and it doesn't work! The outlet is switched on top and normal on the bottom. The bottom works fine.

This outlet is across the room from the other outlet, if that matters any... So, did I cause this or was it a coincidence? How can I trouble shoot the connection? TIA.

[mawipafl]

My first thought is that it has something to do with the connector. You've experimented and shown that it isn't the lamp nor its bulb, and the bottom part of the receptacle works. Does the wall switch operate any other outlets? If so, do they work?

[JBrown]

I'll assume for the moment you've got the typical outlet with two screws on each side and a pair of quickie push-ins on the back side as well.

Usually...the two screws are jumpered together on each side so that what ever one (top or bottom) does the other does. They are part of the brass ...If and when you want say the upper to be live all the time and the bottom to be switched you break the little jumper with a pair of needle nose pliers and now each outlet is independent of the other.

If you run a line to such and outlet and don't realize that someone has separated the two only one (upper or bottom) will work.

you'll have to pull them back out to examine but I'm guessing that's the problem.

[sbanawan]

Originally Posted by JBrown

I'll assume for the moment you've got the typical outlet with two screws on each side and a pair of quickie push-ins on the back side as well.

Usually...the two screws are jumpered together on each side so that what ever one (top or bottom) does the other does. They are part of the brass ...If and when you want say the upper to be live all the time and the bottom to be switched you break the little jumper with a pair of needle nose pliers and now each outlet is independent of the other.

If you run a line to such and outlet and don't realize that someone has separated the two only one (upper or bottom) will work.

you'll have to pull them back out to examine but I'm guessing that's the problem.

I think that's what happened here. Now, how do I fix it? I haven't messed with the switched receptacle at all so it should be as it was when it was working. The other receptacle, as I said, I cut a wire (going in or out, I don't know) and ended up reconnecting it to itself with the push connectors. As far as I can tell, it should be exactly as it was before I got there. I mean, electricity should travel through the connectors without a problem, right? I wonder if I've got a bad connection in there. Could that cause the problem?

[juggler]

First order of business would be to take off the wall plate and inspect the 3-wire connector and make sure nothing has come lose. Also, is there any reason why you couldn't take the 3 wire connector out of the circuit (since you are not using it) and hook the original wire back up to the receptacle? I know you cut it, but it should still reach, assuming there is enough slack in it.

If you have a voltmeter, probe the black and white wires going to the defective socket and check for 120VAC (with the switch on). If present, you need to double check your outlet connections; if not present, go open up the wall plate at the switch and check for 120VAC there.

[juggler]

Originally Posted by sbanawan

I think that's what happened here. Now, how do I fix it? I haven't messed with the switched receptacle at all so it should be as it was when it was working. The other receptacle, as I said, I cut a wire (going in or out, I don't know) and ended up reconnecting it to itself with the push connectors. As far as I can tell, it should be exactly as it was before I got there. I mean, electricity should travel through the connectors without a problem, right? I wonder if I've got a bad connection in there. Could that cause the problem?

OK, you've clarified that the part of the outlet you modified was the non-switched part, so the switched receptacle "should" work fine. I suspect that during the course of pulling the outlet out and modifying the non-switched part, one of the pair of wires feeding the switched part pulled loose just enough to break the connection. Pull out the outlet again and re-check and retighten all connections. That should fix it. Good Luck.

[sbanawan]

WTH. I just tried the switch again and now it works. Freaky. Nothing has changed, as far as I know. Maybe one of my connectors is loose and it just happened to be working now? I gotta get back there and check. Thanks for the help.

[sbanawan]

That's the thing - I didn't touch the receptacle that's affected in any way! The one that I messed with was the one across the room.

I would just reconnect the original wires but there's no slack in it at all. I had to patch it with another length of wire. A 14-3 wire if I'm not mistaken. Definitely a thicker grade than the original wire.

[mktavish]

Originally Posted by sbanawan

That's the thing - I didn't touch the receptacle that's affected in any way! The one that I messed with was the one across the room.

I would just reconnect the original wires but there's no slack in it at all. I had to patch it with another length of wire. A 14-3 wire if I'm not mistaken. Definitely a thicker grade than the original wire.

What??? 14/3 is thicker than what you had originally??? that means you have 16 guage wire running your plugs? not good.
Im guessing you must be mistaken on the size.
12 guage is good up to 20 amps
14 guage is good up to 15 amps
16 guage im not sure but have never heard of it used or seen it in romex style wire.

sounds like you have a bad connection somewhere , you really need to hunt it down , bad connections create sparks wich is definately a fire hazard. could be the switch though , and it just happend to show itself at that moment ~shrug~ pull the switch out without disconecting it , and play with it while it is powering a litght at the plug .Watch for flicker and or popping noises , if so then replace the switch.

If im misunderstanding , that you solved the connection problem when reattaching those wires you cut , I think your talking about those little blue clips with 6 holes for quick connection (usually used for recess lights) I hate those things , and never trust them compared to wire nuts. IMO

[jimboburnsy]

Originally Posted by sbanawan

Ok, I may have done something stupid yesterday - or this was a horrible coincidence. I was trying to add a receptacle by splicing a wire to an existing receptacle. The existing one is a middle of the run one but I didn't think that would matter. I cut the wire and added a 3 wire push-in connector so I could splice in another wire. For unrelated reasons, I decided not to add the receptacle but I had already cut the wire so it's got those connectors (with empty 3rd slots) connecting the cut wires.

Anyway, I made sure that I had connected all 3 wires - black, white and ground - properly and checked the outlet, as well as the outlets to the left and right of that one. Everything seemed ok.

Then last night, I went to flip on the light attached to the switched receptacle and it doesn't work! The outlet is switched on top and normal on the bottom. The bottom works fine.

This outlet is across the room from the other outlet, if that matters any... So, did I cause this or was it a coincidence? How can I trouble shoot the connection? TIA.

Here's what I'm hearing from your description:

One one end of the room you have a receptacle with a toggle switch on the top and a 3-prong plug on the bottom. On the other end of the room you have a 3-prong outlet that supplies power to a lamp and is controlled by the aforementioned toggle switch. Right so far?

Your design was to add another 3-prong outlet between the toggle switch and the 3-prong outlet at the end of the run, presumably also to be controlled by the toggle switch. Still right?

For whatever reason, you decided against adding the third outlet and patched the work with a push-in connector as depicted in your link above and now no power goes to the 3-prong outlet at the end of the run regardless of the toggle switch connection. Am I right?

If so, it seems very unlikely that anything other than the connector is the problem. To fix that the right way, you will need to install a junction box at the location of the splice (and probably two if you can't pull about 4" of cable from both ends of the splice into the box). I'm assuming you did the splice in the attic, which will make this a lot easier.

Go to home depot and get two of these for your junction boxes:


If you can pull enough wire from either end of the splice into the box, then you just need to install one box. It is very important that the splice you make is not under any tension. You will need some wire scraps about 6" long (probably less, but I like to have too much rather than too little when it comes to wiring) for the "jumpers". I would want to use 12 gauge for the jumpers, but in any case make sure that the scrap wire is not smaller than the existing wire. Cut the sheathing on all the cables to expose the individual wires then strip about 3/4" to 1" of insulation from each wire (except the ground, obviously). Twist the wires together (black to black, white to white, ground to ground), ensuring that you have at least three tight loops on each connection before you screw on the wire nuts. Close your junction box with a blank faceplate to prevent dust, critters or whatever else.

If you can't pull enough wire to make a safe connection that is not under any tension whatsoever, put two boxes about six inches apart on either side of the splice and connect the two ends with a fully sheathed 12-2 wire spanning the gap (when one says 12-2, he or she is talking about wire with black, white and ground. When one says 12-3, he or she is talking about wire with black, red, white and ground). Put on your blank faceplates and resume flipping switches.


EDIT: By the way, what was the resolution with your ceiling fan?