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desertsun41, I'd like to publicly "thank" you for that nice little insulting DM that you sent me.
However, let the record show that it was not I who began our little pi**ing match. Originally I simply expressed my opinion that when one is on a moderate budget, one should think carefully about whether any particular extra-cost option will likely be truly worth its cost. To illustrate my viewpoint I stated that I later regretted paying extra $$ for pullout shelves in my last kitchen, as well as the reason why: Because I subsequently never used or felt any need to use them.
I certainly was not dissing anyone who sells pullout shelves, orders pullout shelves, uses pullout shelves, or likes pullout shelves. I merely gave an illustrative example drawn from my own personal experience. YMMV of course.
However, for some unknown (and frankly, quite puzzling!) reason, desertsun41 chose to declare that I was lying about never using my pullout shelves. I naturally took exception to that rudely expressed and totally unfounded assertion, and as we all know, things went downhill from there.
I also did express an opinion, which seems to be shared by at least two other posters on this thread, of any salesperson who arbitrarily adds in an extra-cost option without getting specific permission from the customer to do so. I would have said the same thing regardless of whether the item being sold was kitchen cabinets, a car, or anything else that has optional equipment available.... and I believe that most responsible adults would agree with my position.
My sincere apologies to the OP for allowing myself to be drawn into such a nasty sidetrack to his/her original question.
Last edited by totallyfrazzled; 04-29-2009 at 07:31 PM..
We bought an older home that had Kraftmaid cabinets - I am very impressed - those drawers are solid, well made and still look good even though they are dated - the heck with the snobs!
I'm sick of the back and forth about what the things are made of. I'll take pics this afternoon after I get home of places you don't want to find particle board in cabinets you buy that should make things pretty clear.
desertsun41, with all due respect, I find you on the irrogant and rude side, in some of your posts. If you own all these stores, why on earth are you spending time posting your irrogance here on CD?
We bought an older home that had Kraftmaid cabinets - I am very impressed - those drawers are solid, well made and still look good even though they are dated - the heck with the snobs!
desertsun41, with all due respect, I find you on the irrogant and rude side, in some of your posts. If you own all these stores, why on earth are you spending time posting your irrogance here on CD?
In the 10 years I been teaching my skills to homeowners in adult night school so they can save money on their DIY projects, only once did anyone feel like you. Perhaps your presence would fit better in the politics forums where nothing but opinions are spoken. People who want facts come to this forum for help and appreciate the tips from the pros.
In the past 30 years doing what I do no one has ever called me rude. I expect people who are so far above the best and I pay them well for it. I dont feel I come across too strong based on all those who ask me questions and all those who REP me for it. But to call me irrogance or maybe you mean arrogance is not contributing to any good here.
I am currently, yes...worked on it today.....remodeling a kitchen for a friend of mine. I don't do this for a living but it'll be the 4th kitchen I've personally overhauled. By overhauled I mean gut to the studs ,in this case the floor joists as well, hello basement !!) and start over.
I'm currently installing Kraft made cabinets. Malibu Cherry ,natural finish, full coverage doors. The figuring of the wood is really nice. The finish is also nice. One must realize though that a lot of the secondary surfaces are gussied up particle board at the bottom level. Next you can go to plywood construction and you can step up from there as well...
You get what you are willing to pay for....maybe...
I'm a big believer in diminishing returns for increasing amounts of money spent. ie
You quickly reach a level of quality for money spent... As you spend more money the realized advances etc become harder and harder to justify.
IMHO of course.
Wasn't sure - are you saying the secondary surfaces of the Kraftmaid cabinets you are installing are gussied up particle board at the bottom level?
So keep an eye out for those areas which may be particle board?
Kraftmaid have different levels of quality they offer?
If so, do they have a quality w/o the particle board?
This is more of a design question, but what is everyone's opinion of large drawers vs. the more traditional base cabinet? I've read a lot lately about people using drawers for everything from pots and pans to glassware to place settings. They say it's easier than hunting for things in a cabinet and also more aging-friendly. All of my kitchens have been very basic, no pull-outs or other bells and whistles, but I am planning a remodel in the next year so I'm starting to think about these things.
I have them for pots & pans and for tupperware -- LOVE them.
Got them for the cabin and also will for the house. Try to get as much pull out stuff as I can in areas or for things in which it makes sense.
They also offer drawers for plates but I think I can handle my plates & dishes in a cabinet.
I too have read some posts right here by those who claim to have decked out their new kitchen with all drawers and no doors. Nothing wrong with being crazy I guess but think about resale. How many home buyers would tolerate all drawers?
A better method is as discussed above. One full drawer bank next to the DW, if the kitchen is a good size then you can add a pot and pan drawer bank. Behind all your doors you can order those bases with the pull out trays already installed. Just open the door and pull out the tray. No bending required. Drawers will be above the doors but you can also order full height doors with no drawer above.
A typical 4 drawer bank will have the top 3 drawers 4.5" high and the bottom drawer will be 10" high. These drawer banks will never be more then 24" wide. A quick tip to rate a cabinet company is to measure the depth front to back of the drawer box. If it is 19" it is a junky cheap cabinet. If it is 22 3/4 it is a quality cabinet. Yes cabinet companies save a few pennies selling shorter drawers while the end customer suffers the loss of premium useable space while not knowing any better.
A pot and pan 3 drawer bank will come in only 30" or 36" wide and will have the very top drawer 4.5" deep and the bottom 2 drawers 10.5" deep. A more quality box should have full extention drawer guides meaning the drawer comes completely out of the cabinet rather then about 5" of the drawer still remaining in the cabinet when the drawer is pulled all the way out.
Hope that helps !
Ran off the specs from the Kraftmaid site - working on designing the kitchen for my needs.
Not meaning to be argumentative, but...
They show pot & pan bases with
3 drawer (1 little one and 2 large ones) in sizes 18, 21, 24, 27, 30, 33, & 36
2 large drawer (no little one) in 18, 24, 30, 36
3 drawer (2 little ones and 2 large ones) in 30 & 36
And I agree with you. And my theory of wasting money on all wood boxes is a perfect example.
So that is not really necessary?
Guess not, going back to an earlier discussion.
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