Galvanized and copper pipes~Question (floor, how much, roof, Lowes)

[DubbleT]

Recently purchased house has newer copper pipes joined directly to old galvanized pipes. Water pressure is turned up high in order to force water through the corroded gunky galvanized pipes. Needs to be replaced sooner rather than later.
So I got three bids on this job, two of the guys want to replace just the galvanized with Pex, third guy wants to replace all the pipes with Pex. What I find confusing is that the third guy gave the lowest bid, for doing the most work. (He's also the only one that said he would sleeve the pipes from the house to the street.)
Kind of wondering if the bid from the third guy is lower because he can salvage the copper? Is copper still valuble enough that it would warrant a difference of hundreds of dollars of difference in the bids? Or do you think there is something else coming into play here?
1st bid 3000-3500
2nd bid 2500-3000
3rd bid 2000-2500

[Driller1]

Ask all three guys to give you references. Not of prefect jobs, jobs they had to go back on.

[Cosmic]

More than likely the cheaper guy is not planning on digging anything up. That adds to the price a lot in many cases. In some places you need a permit if you are to dig.

If you do it right can pull the new pipe thru the old pipe. They used to do it a lot with the old lead services. Or he is planning on pulling the old pipe out and using that as the means to pull in the new stuff. Can be done but you need the ability to generate a lot of force. The old pipe acts as the pulling cable.

The value of the copper would not be anything close to the difference. He probably will try to run off with it. Actually it is yours and he has no right to it. If anybody gets to sell it that would be you. Does sound like the cheaper guy has his act together a lot better and will probably give you the best total job. I would just ask more questions, exactly how he will do it, maybe check his references.

Ask how much he wants to not replace the copper, see what he sezs to that. Actually you probably do have additional problems. Those old steel lines the junk tends to get carried into the copper and plates out in strange places. Lot of times it is just before the facuets. So going total pex might be best but even there they probably are just going the mains that can be seen.

Plumbers are some of the worse characters to deal with. I never found anybody I could trust. They will give you all sorts of song and dance about the copper, just remember you own it, not them.

[DubbleT]

Originally Posted by Cosmic

More than likely the cheaper guy is not planning on digging anything up. That adds to the price a lot in many cases. In some places you need a permit if you are to dig.

If you do it right can pull the new pipe thru the old pipe.They used to do it a lot with the old lead services. Or he is planning on pulling the old pipe out and using that as the means to pull in the new stuff. Can be done but you need the ability to generate a lot of force. The old pipe acts as the pulling cable.

Yeah, basically what he said was he would pull some cheap pvc through, use that to sleeve the Pex, hopefully no digging. Also he was the only guy that mentioned he would check with the city/utilites for placement of any obstructions, maybe the other guys were planning on that and just didn't feel the need to mention it?
House sits on a hill, with pipes on a downward slant towards the street, would that make it easier to pull the pipes?
Third guy has also been in business less than 10 years, so maybe lower bid because he's still building a customer base? Makes me a little leery though, guess I'll definitely be asking for references.

And... I don't mind if he takes the copper, as long as it's factored into the bid.
Saves me the hassle of having to deal with it myself~

[Cosmic]

You have to clear any digging, no matter how minor with a place known as Dig Safe. Basically a telephone number where you inform them of any planned digging. It's in the front of the phone book. They then come out and mark locations that are safe. Without that being done, you the owner could be on the hook for any damage, along with the plumber. That is a must do for sure. Your local town may have other requirements. Dig Safe is an agency to protect everything installed underground and give proper instructions where to dig for any purpose. Especially in more built up urban areas, even if you are going to drive a stake or dig a post hole, you got to call.

Part of it may be your city / town is very anal about who gets to work on water services, especially out on the streets. Many places, not every plumber or Tom, Dick or Harry is authorized, in some it is only the water dept themselves who can do the actual hook ups. Must supervise all digging. Some there are approved outside contractors, can vary all over the lot depending on where you are. Usually the bigger, more established outfits are approved and have the right connections if they don't have the necessary equipment themselves.

Some of that might be in play here. The more newbies don't want to mess with the service part of it for whatever reason, they might not even be approved to do so. You really have to know the rules and customs of the local area of what is required.

You really want to understand the techniques they plan on using. It is more the depth of the pipe and type of soils, condition of the old line that probably have the most impact. You do need enough room for good access. They have to have a method to generate a lot of force. I've seen it done where they use compressed air to blow a thin guide cable thru the old line. Then they pull a bigger steel cable thru the entire line, that gets blocked, clipped to the new line and they then used a bulldozer winch to pull out the old line while pulling in the new line behind it. There is a very small section of trench required at the street.

None of it is rocket science but you want somebody who has some experience and the proper equipment. Hopefully who follows all the local rules. Lot of this sort of thing is done for all sorts of utilities, is a pretty common practice, digging can be a no no in a lot of places for various reasons, if it can be a avoided.

[Driller1]

In Michigan it is Miss Dig. Just dial 811

[Cosmic]

Yeah the whole concept of Dig Safe is going to vary depending where you are but that requirement is always there. They might call it different things in different places. The idea is DO NOT just go digging without prior approval to prevent damage to whatever else might be buried there. That is anywhere, even in your back yard.

In the very large cities, Dig Safe is actually the utilities themself as a group have a common type database and they cooperate to ensure the function is done to protect all utilities and buried whatever. You may call the number but the actual bodies on the ground will usually be one of the utility type peeps.

But any plumber should know the requirements for his area and it is actually his responibility to see it is done properly. Wierd strange things happen when you start punching holes in the ground.

[humboldtrat]

Originally Posted by DubbleT

Recently purchased house has newer copper pipes joined directly to old galvanized pipes.

Copper and galvanized pipes shouldn't be directly connected together. You need a dielectric union or coupler to connect copper to galvanized otherwise electrolysis will corrode the pipe. A dielectric union has a rubber or plastic spacer in it so that the copper and steel don't touch each other.

Otherwise, I say go with all copper if you want a quality job that will last for years.

[DubbleT]

Originally Posted by humboldtrat

Copper and galvanized pipes shouldn't be directly connected together. You need a dielectric union or coupler to connect copper to galvanized otherwise electrolysis will corrode the pipe. A dielectric union has a rubber or plastic spacer in it so that the copper and steel don't touch each other.

Otherwise, I say go with all copper if you want a quality job that will last for years.

Already has, thus the bids I'm gathering. All three plumbers had some choice words to say about whatever #@!%^** did such a stupid thing to begin with.
(Yes, I did know about the pipes before buying the house, planned on replacing them. Give me a few months I'll be back asking about the roof repairs I know I need too.)
Would love to do all copper, but then there is that roof repair expense to think about too, so I hope I'm ok with the Pex, for at least the next 10-15 years anyway.

[Barking Spider]

I doubt seriously if anyone will be able to pull anything thru the old galvanized pipe. It is likely so rusted and corroded inside the diameter is probably less than 1/4".

There is a machine some guys use that feeds the pipe underground without digging. They can go under driveways, slabs etc. I just looked at a house where they came up at the back of a garage thru the floor to re-connect to the house plumbing. It was pretty amazing.

The only reason to get rid of the existing copper would be if there were the start of pin hole leaks. I would probably use PEX for everything, and just connect to the existing copper.

Keep in mind that if the electrical system is using the water pipes for the ground, a new ground rod will have to be installed, when you go with plastic.
I was going to say that the difference in the bids might be the difference in the labor rate, the estimated man hours, or what they think they are worth, or what they would like to think they are worth.