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It's time to re-do my entire A/C system. We've been limping along with a 30-year old system but I don't think we can go any further with it.
I live in Florida, so my A/C provides my heating as well as my cooling and it gets plenty of use. My home was built in the 1940's and it is small (appx 1000 sq ft). I want to use this opportunity to upgrade to a quality system that I'll get plenty of years out of, so I don't mind spending a little extra for reliability and such.
I will of course be calling in professionals for their advice and estimates, but I'd love to hear feedback from the forum on what is and isn't worth spending extra on, reliable brands, and just what to expect in general.
Air Handler - 13 SEER is the current code requirement in my area, is there any benefit in going higher?
Compressor - We're on an urban lot, so it's hard to get away from the sound of the compressor. I'd love to hear which brands you've found to be the quietest and which to avoid. I'm hoping to find the near-silent compressor !
Ducts - Should I keep my old ones? They're at least 30 years old. Might they be of better quality than "today's" ducts? Is it healthier to get brand new ones because they'd be cleaner? Will new ones have any effect on sound? I have to move my air handler from the center of the house to the garage, if that makes any difference in keeping the old ducts or not.
Rebates - Is it worth it to pursue getting a government rebate or is it complicated? When I replumbed the house I tried for a water heater rebate, but the process was not as easy as I had hoped and I did not get the rebate.
Options - Air filtration systems? What did you add into your A/C re-do that was well worth it? What wasn't worth the extra money? What brands should I research? What brand would you buy again? What brands should I avoid?
Thank you for your answers to any or all of the Q's above, I appreciate the feedback!
Location: Sometimes Maryland, sometimes NoVA. Depends on the day of the week
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I'll talk to the rebate issues, as we just got some a/c estimates and talked about the rebate. Note, this is what we were told and is a comglomeration of four estimators. First off, we couldn't qualify for the rebate even if we wanted to, due to our furnace, which we are not interested in replacing - not an issue for you. What we learned is that the difference between 13 and 16 SEER was more than the maximum of the rebate, and in our climate, it would only save us $50-80 a YEAR (we only use a/c 3 months). However, in Florida, I think that would be much better. The chart we were given (in a Trane brochure) showed 38% savings with 13 SEER and 47% savings with 15 SEER (over our system, guestimated to be ~8 SEER). Also, to get to 16 SEER, you have to go to a dual-speed (or something) blower that, at least we were told, is more likely to burn out. Who knows if that part is true.
In short, we will be going with 13 SEER. As much as I am for energy efficiency, I'm not seeing the payoff that will result in possibly saving us $9-18 per month for 3 months (total electric in the summer is under $200, baseline electric is ~$80) to go from 13 to 15 SEER. YMMV, especially in Florida where you use a/c for what? 10 months of the year? That could give you $200/year savings.
I was really dsappointed I do everything I can at home to save electricity, all energy star appliances, use a clothesline, unplug things when I can, etc. But we couldn't justify the 15 SEER over the 13.
My air condition man also told me that it really depends on more than the unit but the house if you actually wil have a payofff with going beyond a certqain EER rating.He also advised that in his opinion the moeyy is often better spent in getting a top of the line unit as alot of teh unit just don't last like tehy did even in the 90's if the cheaper line of the same manufactuer. He said he sees the same cheap units in new homes that are sold to meet contract cost in muti unit bids for thier dealers.YHe has been dfoign my aior conditioning work for like 30 years ;so I trust him.
...I was really dsappointed I do everything I can at home to save electricity, all energy star appliances, use a clothesline, unplug things when I can, etc. But we couldn't justify the 15 SEER over the 13.
That's how I felt when I did the replumb. 13 Seer may be all I do as well. I appreciate the feedback Rubytue .
Quote:
Originally Posted by texdav
...He also advised that in his opinion the moeyy is often better spent in getting a top of the line unit as alot of teh unit just don't last like tehy did even in the 90's if the cheaper line of the same manufactuer. He said he sees the same cheap units in new homes that are sold to meet contract cost in muti unit bids for thier dealers.YHe has been dfoign my aior conditioning work for like 30 years ;so I trust him.
I'd like to get an excellent compressor and handler. I'd willingly pay extra if I could find something quiet. My current unit - a GE - is average for sound but obviously built strong (30 years and still going ). It would be nice to find a brand built well enough to last 25 or more years...is that even possible today?
Location: Sometimes Maryland, sometimes NoVA. Depends on the day of the week
1,501 posts, read 11,753,766 times
Reputation: 1135
I have the brochures in front of me now. The two Bryant units we priced out (preferred and legacy lines) claime to be 74 and 67 dB, respectively. The sales brochure says thats "as quiet as a refrigerator." Of course, they gave sound levels in dB, which is a troublesome measure as written - should have used sones, but no one knows sones. Sones give you a unit of perceived loudness. dB by itself isn't very meaningful (is is dBA? is it a sound intensity? is it sound power?).
I live in Florida, so my A/C provides my heating as well as my cooling and it gets plenty of use. My home was built in the 1940's and it is small (appx 1000 sq ft). I want to use this opportunity to upgrade to a quality system that I'll get plenty of years out of, so I don't mind spending a little extra for reliability and such.
I will of course be calling in professionals for their advice and estimates, but I'd love to hear feedback from the forum on what is and isn't worth spending extra on, reliable brands, and just what to expect in general.
Air Handler - 13 SEER is the current code requirement in my area, is there any benefit in going higher?
Compressor - We're on an urban lot, so it's hard to get away from the sound of the compressor. I'd love to hear which brands you've found to be the quietest and which to avoid. I'm hoping to find the near-silent compressor !
Ducts - Should I keep my old ones? They're at least 30 years old. Might they be of better quality than "today's" ducts? Is it healthier to get brand new ones because they'd be cleaner? Will new ones have any effect on sound? I have to move my air handler from the center of the house to the garage, if that makes any difference in keeping the old ducts or not.
Rebates - Is it worth it to pursue getting a government rebate or is it complicated? When I replumbed the house I tried for a water heater rebate, but the process was not as easy as I had hoped and I did not get the rebate.
Options - Air filtration systems? What did you add into your A/C re-do that was well worth it? What wasn't worth the extra money? What brands should I research? What brand would you buy again? What brands should I avoid?
Thank you for your answers to any or all of the Q's above, I appreciate the feedback!
When you say your AC provides both your cooling and heating, are you meaning that it's a Heat Pump?
That said...
I just had the central air unit replaced on a rental house. For obvious reasons, I did a lot of research before deciding what direction to go.
First of all, I would strongly suggest you do not replace your duct work, unless there is an obvious structural problem. You may want to have them professionally cleaned, but the expense of replacing them is most likely unnecessary.
Second, I could have gone for the $1500 energy credit, but decided not to. I would have had to spend a lot more money just to get it. It wasn't worth spending $6000 to get a $1500 rebate, when I could get the job done for $2300.
Third, 13 SEER is more or less the industry standard. You can buy a unit that is more efficient, but it will be exponentially more expensive. If I remember correctly what one of the salesmen said, I could have gotten as high as an 18 SEER, but it would have cost over $10,000. Obviously, the energy savings would never have paid for the added cost.
Fourth, I have never used anything more than a standard furnace filtration system. You can get all kinds of filters - from very cheap and basic, to high-tech allergen filtering units.
can also tell you taht my AC guy told me he recommend a unit with a expxnsion value . As I remmeber he said that all unit hasd tem before the like 70;s when they elimianted them for cost reasons;I can't remember why but they make for a better unit. I would say go tot eh Reem;Carrier and othe top named sites and look at the unit they offer. I have a reem that is like 18 year old and still going strong. I have always use a water hose to wash the out coils as my air conditon guy me to to keep it claen on the outside unit.I alos have the unit check very aprail .This is a personal opinon but I have had alot of people that got goodman and Colemen units that were very unhappy with the constant problems. Even if covered by warrnty its no fun being without air conditioning while you wait to get it fixed sometime during heavy cooling season.One reason I think its good to have a air conditioning man you know and have confidence in. Google some of the top brands and lok at thier specs is my advise.If you do a whol;e system then i would definite make sure the retunr is large enouhg because My AC mand and others have said if the return is not large enough using pleated filters instead of fibergalss will move less air and is harder on the system.
If you plan to continue living there, you might consider a ground source heat pump. It'll be more expensive up front, but could save in the long run, especially if you have to use heat strips or auxiliary heat in the winter. I think most heat pumps now use scrolls instead of compressors. (Scrolls are more reliable and quieter.) Ground source should be quieter than an outside coil and fan as well.
"Quiet as a refrigerator" sounds pretty good to me Ruby !
So for brands, I'll be looking into Bryant, Rheem and Carrier. Is GE still a reliable brand? How about Trane? Lennox? Thanks for the heads-up on Goodman and Coleman, Texdav . I'll research "expansion valve" as well.
Yes Omaha, I believe I have a heat pump. It's just one air handler and I switch it to heat or cool according to the season. We only use the heat for maybe 2 months of the year. Thanks for your feedback on rebates...why do they make it so hard to get them??
Harry, I'll add "scrolls" to my list for research, thanks. Once I pull the old air handler out, I'll be installing a wood-burning stove in its' place, so I'll have another source of heat. The house is off-grade (on piers) and there is a concrete slab and a chimney in the center of the house. This was for the former source of heat, an oil heater. When they converted the house to A/C (in the 60's? 70's?), the air handler was placed in the old oil heater's location. A modern air handler could never fit into the tiny space (I think the current unit is something like 8 SEER ), so moving the handler is a have-to. So I think I'll be good for heat once I can install the wood stove, but I will keep your ground heat source suggestion in mind as a back-up, thanks.
Which kind of brings me back to the ducts......
Since I have to rip out and relocate the air handler from the center of the home to the garage, that's what got me started thinking about new ducts. I was wondering if I could even salvage the current duct system since we'll be re-routing the air direction?? I guess I'll have to wait until the pros get a good look at them and we'll see. I don't think there's anything wrong with my ducts, it's just that the whole system is loud, but maybe that is no fault of the ducts and will be resolved once I have a quieter overall system.
Another question...
If I decide to add onto this house in the future, how easy is it to tie into the duct system? Is there anything I should have the A/C people do now for the future expansion of the house?
"Quiet as a refrigerator" sounds pretty good to me Ruby !
So for brands, I'll be looking into Bryant, Rheem and Carrier. Is GE still a reliable brand? How about Trane? Lennox? Thanks for the heads-up on Goodman and Coleman, Texdav . I'll research "expansion valve" as well.
Yes Omaha, I believe I have a heat pump. It's just one air handler and I switch it to heat or cool according to the season. We only use the heat for maybe 2 months of the year. Thanks for your feedback on rebates...why do they make it so hard to get them??
Harry, I'll add "scrolls" to my list for research, thanks. Once I pull the old air handler out, I'll be installing a wood-burning stove in its' place, so I'll have another source of heat. The house is off-grade (on piers) and there is a concrete slab and a chimney in the center of the house. This was for the former source of heat, an oil heater. When they converted the house to A/C (in the 60's? 70's?), the air handler was placed in the old oil heater's location. A modern air handler could never fit into the tiny space (I think the current unit is something like 8 SEER ), so moving the handler is a have-to. So I think I'll be good for heat once I can install the wood stove, but I will keep your ground heat source suggestion in mind as a back-up, thanks.
Which kind of brings me back to the ducts......
Since I have to rip out and relocate the air handler from the center of the home to the garage, that's what got me started thinking about new ducts. I was wondering if I could even salvage the current duct system since we'll be re-routing the air direction?? I guess I'll have to wait until the pros get a good look at them and we'll see. I don't think there's anything wrong with my ducts, it's just that the whole system is loud, but maybe that is no fault of the ducts and will be resolved once I have a quieter overall system.
Another question...
If I decide to add onto this house in the future, how easy is it to tie into the duct system? Is there anything I should have the A/C people do now for the future expansion of the house?
Hello, I'm looking into replacing my system at this time. Goodman seems to have the best price and one of the guys I had quote me told me to do anything but the Rheem???? I've heard mixed review about Trane as of late - I've heard from a few that they are not as high of quality as they once were - more money in advertising than in QC.
I'm curious about what you ended up determining? Also, I've found that some manufacturers and power companies are adding to the $1500 from Uncle Obama, making it even more attractive to go to the 16 seer.
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I do everything I can at home to save electricity, all energy star appliances, use a clothesline, unplug things when I can, etc. But we couldn't justify the 15 SEER over the 13.
. I'll research "expansion valve" as well.
), so moving the handler is a have-to. So I think I'll be good for heat once I can install the wood stove, but I will keep your ground heat source suggestion in mind as a back-up, thanks.
I guess I'll have to wait until the pros get a good look at them and we'll see. I don't think there's anything wrong with my ducts, it's just that the whole system is loud, but maybe that is no fault of the ducts and will be resolved once I have a quieter overall system.
