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Old 10-22-2009, 12:37 AM
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,539 posts, read 21,159,203 times
Reputation: 16936

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I'm very frustrated by our bathroom redo. The plummer and carpenters who came in did put in the new shower. I watched though and there was not kind of barrier between the shower and the wall, and the drywall wasn't water resistant and there was no insulation added. The wall got closed up before I could use foam where there was space. I know this guy knows his business in terms of plumming but its my cold air drafts. And I quite plainly said I wanted privacy glass. We got at best semi privacy. I will be putting window film on it, hopefully before he returns to put in the vanity. I hope it works.

This is a small town and options are limited. The plumming contractor who put in the bathroom origionally when I was in California decided I needed a bathtub instead of a standalone shower and left a mess. I never saw a single picture and this plummer came in to finish that which was not so we used him this time.

It took a visit and remeasure to get him to get a corner shower. He said he had forgotten how small the room was. I was upfront about the kind of glass but he wasn't listening. With all the delays and problems I'm not sure I'd want to have it replaced. Window film will do. With that in mind I was quite specific about my needs and no goes on the vanity.

I'm doing the painting and putting down the tile. I had a very specific request for the vanity to be 34 or 35 inches high as the smaller one was useless and never got used. He did hear that I wanted it white and has to special order one with the sink on one side. But he insists they "only come" in 32 inches. Three or four inches doesn't sound like much but the sink that low is just not comfortable. And I can find vanities online that size as its one of the standards. So why can't you special order it the right heights????? Carpentry wise, I'm sure there is a way to add a few inches even if you can't but that requires imagination. As long as there are shelves inside this vanity and its high enough I'm okay with it but I get the attitude that he has decided this is the size its going to be and thats it.

I am not the owner but a relative is and its supposed to be what I ask for. He knows this but disregards me. The relative who owns it is not happy about the situation but isn't here. Its taken months for any action so I don't want him to walk, but I don't see for what he's getting paid that I/we are getting our money's worth.

Is this normal? I expected to see a picture and such before an order was placed. If I hate it and it has no storage as I suspect can we say no and what would that do monitarily to the equation? I'd be willing to wait longer if they have to remake it to have it RIGHT. But I don't think it should cost us.

Any suggestions?

Pretty much everything else that needs doing around here I can do myself which is quite a relief. If I take forever its my own choice. If its not perfect its my doing. I hate being ignored by someone who seems to think he is in charge of the details that matter. A bathroom with the wrong glass and a vanity is specifically would not want is not what we are paying for. If I mess up its my problem but I don't think this should be.

I'm not an expert but I did research and am not happy about the way the shower was set up or the insulation. I expected more. I do know the differenct between what I know how to do and what I know how it should be done. In the future unless there is no possible way I will find other ways to get things done than hiring locals.
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Old 10-22-2009, 01:36 AM
 
Location: southwest TN
8,568 posts, read 18,027,229 times
Reputation: 16701
If he's deaf and you're not communicating via signlanguage, why aren't you writing things down? In fact, if he can hear, he's obviously not listening, so why are you not writing things down?

I would never have a worker in my house where the instructions weren't clear - in writing beforehand
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Old 10-22-2009, 08:17 AM
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,539 posts, read 21,159,203 times
Reputation: 16936
Quote:
Originally Posted by NY Annie View Post
If he's deaf and you're not communicating via signlanguage, why aren't you writing things down? In fact, if he can hear, he's obviously not listening, so why are you not writing things down?

I would never have a worker in my house where the instructions weren't clear - in writing beforehand
I suppose I should have put that in quotes. He hears fine. He nods, and then goes and orders what he decides he should. We measuered and discussed and I was quite plain about what I needed. It couldn't have been clearer. The owner also was specific about this. I'm not sure how this works other places but here it seems to be the good old boy system and a verbal agreement. He's quite aware of the requests, and simply isn't listening. Finding someone else at this point would be difficult.

The family member who owns the place is going to discuss this with him but as long as he's in California its hard to have the same impact as being here. He was never told to go ahead and order anything until we settled things. He just did. At this point I get a vanity that is the right height and I will be happy. His work is not bad, maybe not as complete as it could be but he did level the floor. I just feel that he is not a decorator and when the customer says this is a must this is a must. I would not even come near the first one that left the unfinished house....

Fortunately I think this is the last thing that needs someone hired to do. Unfortunately if it had been done as we wanted way back when it wouldn't need to be a problem now.
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Old 10-22-2009, 09:04 AM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
30,701 posts, read 79,339,648 times
Reputation: 39409
It is called selective listening and I think that they teach it as a class at the plumber training schools. Actually they seem to teach it to most contractors, but plumbers seem to be the worst.

"What part of 'Do not cut through any joists or beams without asking me first did you not understand?"

"Why is it difficult for you to grasp my statement that if you cut a floor joist to put a pipe through, the whole house will sag?"
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Old 10-22-2009, 09:17 AM
 
Location: Johns Creek, GA
17,403 posts, read 65,535,896 times
Reputation: 23515
That was quite a rant- and for what?
Just venting?
Your problem is/was this: NO CONTRACT!!!
When there is no contract you have no leverage- and consequently you get stuck with things you didn't want. Now that it's at this point, you start chasing good money after bad. And why? NO CONTRACT!!!
You can try and stand-on the guy, threaten legal action, blah, blah, blah. Is the guy even a licensed contractor? Does he have general liability insurance and workman's comp.?
Bend his ear (sorry for the pun) and see if he'll come around- if not, fire his ass and chalk it up to a lesson well learned.
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Old 10-22-2009, 09:35 AM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
30,701 posts, read 79,339,648 times
Reputation: 39409
Actually, you do have a contract. It is just oral.

If you cna get a contractor to sign a contract with fair terms that cover all of the likely contingencies, you are far better off. However unless this is a $100,000 pllus job, I wish you luck in getting a contractor to sign any such contract. However you might be able to get them to sign a letter agreement with a few simple terms of agreement. Of course if they just ignore those terms and do whatever they want (which they seem inclined to do), what are you going to do about it? Are you going to sue them for $3,000? You could hold part of their money and watch them slap a lien on your house. (of course they then have to sue ont he lien and that costs them money). There is nto a lot that you can do. My solution was to watch them very closely and if they violated our agreement, fire them immediately and get someone else.

That worked with mixed results depending ont he trade. After going through Eight plumbers, I ended up finishing a lot of that work myself. (However when the plumber insisted that the plans showed a wet bar in my daughter's bedroom, I was nto about to keep him on the job, or when I said cast iron waste pipes for vertical drops only and he started putting in PVC and then refused to take it out and change it and just argued with me that PVC was standard and I was stupid for wanting something better,then there was the guy who agreed to put in direct runs to a manifold which is the best way to plum using PEX, but then went ahead and installed a trunk and branch system. He was ogne, but it was impractical to tear it all out and re-do it, so we just had to live with a lower quality system). It did work with some other trades. On occaision after telling them that they were terminated, they came back and agreed to re-do the work the way it was originally agreed to be done. However not the plumbers. None of them followed our agreement, nor the plans and none of them came back to correct their work. Although I held some of the money, going through eight plumbers got very expensive. They all get some money up front.
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Old 10-22-2009, 09:37 AM
 
Location: Denver/Boulder Zone 5b
1,371 posts, read 3,684,914 times
Reputation: 1420
Quote:
Originally Posted by K'ledgeBldr View Post
That was quite a rant- and for what?
Just venting?
Your problem is/was this: NO CONTRACT!!!
When there is no contract you have no leverage- and consequently you get stuck with things you didn't want. Now that it's at this point, you start chasing good money after bad. And why? NO CONTRACT!!!
You can try and stand-on the guy, threaten legal action, blah, blah, blah. Is the guy even a licensed contractor? Does he have general liability insurance and workman's comp.?
Bend his ear (sorry for the pun) and see if he'll come around- if not, fire his ass and chalk it up to a lesson well learned.
K'ledge is exactly right. You MUST get a contract for this kind of work. As Cold noted, good luck getting them to sign a formal legal document, but drafting a letter agreement that helps protect you to some degree is always a good idea - especially when you're talking renovations. If they refuse to sign, easy - move on. A legitimate contractor should agree to fair terms. There really won't be a lot you can do except fire him or stay on the same track you're on if you don't get some form of signature.

I wouldn't even think about legal action because (i) the first thing a lawyer will ask you for is a contract (and although verbal can be binding, good luck getting the contractor to agree with you - you are, afterall, suing him) and (ii) it's not worth the expense. Cut your losses now and get rid of him.

There is NO chance I would put up with someone feeding the b/s your "contractor" is. What an a**. I would not have allowed that for one hot second.

Something you need to remember is that this is YOUR house, YOUR money; not his! What YOU say goes. If something doesn't look right, you need to speak up - don't just let him/them keep working! When our house was being built, we noticed several instances where we thought they might be cutting corners and we haulted the entire construction project until we were satisfied. Yes, we're talking about an entire house in our instance, but the moral is the same. Sometimes you just have to.
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Old 10-26-2009, 01:57 AM
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,539 posts, read 21,159,203 times
Reputation: 16936
Wow, I guess I am not alone here. Next time (please, no next time) every last miserable detail will have a written description. At least this situation is better than the one who put in the bathtub before I moved in despite directly being told NO BATHTUB!

I spoke to the family member who owns the place, and we are doing a tag team I guess. He spoke to the plummer. He couldn't find a vanity the height of the one I requested in his book so he said they didn't make them. So he called Lowes at our urging and yeah they make them, but it would have to be custom made and all in all his custom one cost less. He said he could shim it up with a board but it wouldn't look that good... I said FINE, no problem. I have no compunction about painting stuff how I want them when they close the door.

The wall is painted, the ceiling is a bit roughly textured but the popcorn crap on the ceiling would not go completely and I have to put in the tile. He gets the thing in and I will be happy to see the last of him....

The counter is cultured marble and I'm hoping the stain problems I read are not as bad. I clean everything with vinegar and it says not to use it. Hmmmm. Give me linolium....

What still bugs me is the idea that the plummer contractor seems to think he's an interior designer. When someone has the team on one of the hgtv shows redo the room, they assume it will be good. Otherwise you expect it to be done as asked....

No wonder do it yourself is so popular.
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Old 12-08-2009, 11:45 PM
 
Location: OCEAN BREEZES AND VIEWS SAN CLEMENTE
19,893 posts, read 18,365,237 times
Reputation: 6465
First and foremost always get a contract in WRIITING. A verbal in a court of law i believe means nothing. Deaf or not Deaf did the contractor have a business licesne, and did you see it. Always look at the business license, and always check out references, and current work of the contractor. If the contractor does not want to give you numbers of the clients he has serviced, THEN RUN.
I feel bad for you, but this is a wise lesson you have learned, ALWAYS GET IT IN WRITING. Anything you decide on with the contractor any special requirements, make sure to get in writing, never ever deal with someone who does not have a license and check it out, and the contractors work and references.
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Old 01-23-2010, 10:03 PM
 
Location: Norwalk
4 posts, read 26,952 times
Reputation: 11
hello,I'm sorry for your issues. 1'st kitchen counter height is 36" standard not vanities. 2'nd, wonder board is used in showers and tub surrounds. 3'rd, you only insulate exterior walls, unless for sound proofing! 4'th,for the vanity, all you have to do is add a 1x6/1x4 baseboard around the bottom of the vanity that lifts it up to your desired height.Also drafts come from vents,windows.doors not showers.
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