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Your door is beautiful!! Great job! We just installed a new front door ourselves as well, also opting to go from a solid 6 panel look to a full lite decorative glass. Makes a world of difference in the foyer!
Thanks! And you are right, it makes such a difference! Now there is a nice bright area in an place that was previously just a cold shadowy space.
Most successful (even in this economy)subcontractors that I know won't even turn the key on their truck unless there's at least $200 to pocket.
Every subcontractor has overhead- gas, insurance (vehicle[s]), maintenance, taxes, general liability insurance, W/C insurance, Business license(s), professional license(s), tools, phone(s), etc.
Then there's travel time, total job time, and warranty issues. Then there's the time for ordering materials, time management of projects-
All these things add to the bottom line. I've heard just about every excuse from people over the years about the price they paid for this or that. And on a few rare occasions I'd inquire as to a breakdown of the job that was done- all the answers I perceived to be based on what the customer thought it was worth as if they had done the work (or thought they could do the work) themselves.
I've gone so far as to ask what they thought was involved in a project (bottom line), the majority of the time- they only saw the cosmetic items. The physical, not the nails, saw blades, air tool maintenance, insulation, caulk, and putty; not to mention, paper work, licenses, etc.
So; yes, there is a lot of truth to- "you get what you pay for". Granted, there is "what the market will bear", but these kind of guys don't "compete" with pickup truck guys with a hammer, saw, and nothing more.
Thanks for replying. I certainly can appreciate the cost of doing business these days. When it comes to home remodeling, we certainly want skilled labor who knows their trades and know what they're doing. Using a cheap labor does not mean it will be cheap in the long run.
Your experience with homeowners echos my fear. From a homeowner's view point, we simply don't know who the good skilled trandesman are and we are often ignorant to what is involved. So when some smooth talking contractor gives a bid much lower and he seems like he knows what he's talking about, this is where we the novice homeowners begin to get disappointed when the job is not done correctly.
I can certainly sympathize with you- I've had my fair share of sub's that didn't workout. They talked the talk- and after a little background work, a lot didn't get a chance with me. And those that did, either walked the walk, or after a a job or two found themselves looking for another builder for work.
My mantra- "Knowledge is the Antidote to Fear"- and the 'net is a great place for "general" information. And I use "general" loosely. There will always be deferring opinions- enough for some to be confused beyond recognition, but you can at least arm yourself with enough information that Joe Schmo the pickup truck contractor doesn't pull the wool over your eyes.
I've even had these guys show up at my door (they obviously don't know my background), and on a very rare occasion will listen to their spiel, ask a few very direct questions- I can tell the legit ones from the p/u guys in two seconds!
So, the best place to start is with family and friends. The next place- construction sites. If the subcontractor you need is used in a particular subdivision or by a large or national builder, that person(s) is obviously doing something right. It's just a matter of catching them at the right time.
And lastly, your own neighborhood. You may not know everyone- but if you know of work being done, ask that person for a reference. It may not be the work you need but, it could lead you in the right direction.
Most successful (even in this economy)subcontractors that I know won't even turn the key on their truck unless there's at least $200 to pocket.
Every subcontractor has overhead- gas, insurance (vehicle[s]), maintenance, taxes, general liability insurance, W/C insurance, Business license(s), professional license(s), tools, phone(s), etc.
Then there's travel time, total job time, and warranty issues. Then there's the time for ordering materials, time management of projects-
All these things add to the bottom line. I've heard just about every excuse from people over the years about the price they paid for this or that. And on a few rare occasions I'd inquire as to a breakdown of the job that was done- all the answers I perceived to be based on what the customer thought it was worth as if they had done the work (or thought they could do the work) themselves.
I've gone so far as to ask what they thought was involved in a project (bottom line), the majority of the time- they only saw the cosmetic items. The physical, not the nails, saw blades, air tool maintenance, insulation, caulk, and putty; not to mention, paper work, licenses, etc.
So; yes, there is a lot of truth to- "you get what you pay for". Granted, there is "what the market will bear", but these kind of guys don't "compete" with pickup truck guys with a hammer, saw, and nothing more.
I paid $175.00 each for mine to be installed at two different locations and they are still fine.... I think I got my moneys worth. Plus saved a lot over what you think I should have paid.
Thanks for replying. I certainly can appreciate the cost of doing business these days. When it comes to home remodeling, we certainly want skilled labor who knows their trades and know what they're doing. Using a cheap labor does not mean it will be cheap in the long run.
Your experience with homeowners echos my fear. From a homeowner's view point, we simply don't know who the good skilled trandesman are and we are often ignorant to what is involved. So when some smooth talking contractor gives a bid much lower and he seems like he knows what he's talking about, this is where we the novice homeowners begin to get disappointed when the job is not done correctly.
We're talking about putting is a door, not building a load bearing wall....
...and they are still fine (but you didn't say how long ago).... I think (that perception is in the eye of the wallet-holder) I got my moneys worth. Plus saved a lot (at this point, I don't think you know if you saved anything or not)over what you think I should have paid.
It's not what I think you should have paid. It about what legitimate business-minded contractors charge, and stand behind. Regardless if it's a door or a load-bearing wall.
Guess we're luck to live in an area where permits aren't needed for such things. New, gorgeous prehung door with oval, pebbled glass inset from HD $177, fancy lock/handle set $69, self-installation $0. Total cost $246 + tax. Thrilled to death owners and compliments galore. Our foyer and the view from the front of the house....priceless!!
I know this is an old post, but if you happen to be reading this, can you elaborate on why the labor is so expensive? If it's 'what the market will bear' then I can understand one way, but being a novice and have no clue, it puzzles me why this labor is so expensive?
I think you can justify cost in every field with "you get what you pay for", but seriously this does not provide me (or other potential customers) insights as to why installing a door is so expensive.
I have been a carpenter for 35 years, hanging doors the same length of time.
I base my price on the value of the door. I am not going to install a $2000 door for $400. If, big IF anything happens to the door. My install price will cover replacing that door. I may be out labor but not in the negative.
I currently earn $50 a hour at work, why would I charge less for a homeowner. When most of these side jobs occur on weekends. I make $600 on Saturday at work. Most carpenters I know turn down most side jobs.
25 years ago I got a call from a friends neighbor who wanted a front door hung on a Easter Sunday, I told him $300. He stuttered around told me all I had to do was cut it and hinge it, I told him "fine do it yourself" and hung up. He called back a hour later, said he wanted me to do it and could we work on the price, I said "Yes, double it!". Needless to say, he was Hebrew and not caring about being on Easter.
Years ago there was a newspaper article on home repairs. Do it yourself vs. professional. It was a break down on cost vs. longevity. The professional work usually lasted decades over the D.I.Y. of years.
I have been a carpenter for 35 years, hanging doors the same length of time.
I base my price on the value of the door. I am not going to install a $2000 door for $400. If, big IF anything happens to the door. My install price will cover replacing that door. I may be out labor but not in the negative.
I currently earn $50 a hour at work, why would I charge less for a homeowner. When most of these side jobs occur on weekends. I make $600 on Saturday at work. Most carpenters I know turn down most side jobs.
25 years ago I got a call from a friends neighbor who wanted a front door hung on a Easter Sunday, I told him $300. He stuttered around told me all I had to do was cut it and hinge it, I told him "fine do it yourself" and hung up. He called back a hour later, said he wanted me to do it and could we work on the price, I said "Yes, double it!". Needless to say, he was Hebrew and not caring about being on Easter.
Years ago there was a newspaper article on home repairs. Do it yourself vs. professional. It was a break down on cost vs. longevity. The professional work usually lasted decades over the D.I.Y. of years.
This is assuming that the DIYer is extremely inexperienced. Also, in many instances, homeowners replace, upgrade/remodel, long before things are "worn out". He called you back? Wow, that's desperation.....double it? Wow, really? and you get repeat customers? I don't mean to sound snotty or snide, but wouldn't "Well, it's Easter and I don't work on Easter." work just as well. I can't imagine ever recommending someone with such disdain and disrespect for customers to anyone....well, except someone I wanted to see screwed over and insulted.
Look folks, sounds like some of you DIYers have had some luck in your door hanging experiences. Yes, some of the installations are easy because circumstances are ideal. In those cases it "appears" that hanging doors is a piece of cake! Yes, I'll agree with that. BUT!! - and big "but" here - what happens when you run into difficulties - rotted framing; out of plumb walls -way out of plumb to the extent that the door isn't functioning correctly? What then? Or, better yet, when you put the new door in and find that it doesn't operate correctly and you can't figure it out for the life of you, how the previous door worked in that same hole!!??...there could be several reasons why its like that, BUT without knowing where to start in your troubleshooting, AND where to start in your correcting what is wrong, (if you can figure it out to begin with), you very well could be in big trouble. An entry door could present problems a novice simply couldn't be expected to resolve. Then again, some folks are simply "handier" than others - All I can say is, more power to you, for those who can, and "oh well, that's why we're here" for those who can't - and for those who run into those unforeseen disasters waiting to happen" which -don't kid yourself- DO HAPPEN. Good luck folks!
G P Richards
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