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It's not the fittings mainly....it's the chlorine compound supposedly breaking down the plastic making it brittle. Friday had two very very small pin holes in the supply side of a hot water heat that was PB.
I don't have much scientific data to back that up but I think hot water temps also have a effect on it. That's an observation of mine though from the 10 last PB repair I have done.
Plastic pipes may have been a problem in the past, but today they are the latest, greatest thing. Copper is yesterday, plastic is today. Perhaps if you are looking at an older home, you may want to investigate whether or not you are getting the 80's, 90's plastic, or the ones used today that are state of the art.
Copper is far from outdated......over priced yes (depending on how you look at it). Plastics are just cheaper to use.....watch out for that thought also since petro is a major factor in the price of those plastics.
Copper is far from outdated......over priced yes (depending on how you look at it). Plastics are just cheaper to use.....watch out for that thought also since petro is a major factor in the price of those plastics.
Petroleum is also huge in the production of copper: mining, smelting, fabricating.
Also, for hot water pipes, you don't want a good heat transfer. You want a terrible heat transfer/good insulator, because then you're not wasting heat heating up a pipe, you're delivering it to the faucet.
My house is all PEX, but we also have radiant floors (where heat transfer would be good, but radiant floors almost always use PEX because of flexibility and ease of installation). Good insulation on the PEX means that the 100 degree water coming out of the boiler is about 98 degrees at the entrance to the floor.
Last edited by PNW-type-gal; 06-23-2008 at 09:26 AM..
Reason: left off the end of a sentence...
All hot water pipes should be insulated completely anyways hot water heaters eve n with heat traps still come with insulation. PEX is def. easier to install and repair......just waiting for the defect from whatever they find 20 years down the road that we didn't know about now as we are loading as many homes as possible with PEX (can we say possible PB lawsuits all over again but probably much larger now). May never happen and may be the best thing since sliced bread we will see. Copper is used in refrigeration and sometimes can see 400-500 psi and last 20-30 years like that.
Thanks for the links I'll get more in depth later when I have time.
Our realtor says that if we buy a house with "poly pipes" we should replace them right away. And she was very excited every time we looked at a house that had already had the pipes replaced.
So, what's the story. She simply said "they break." And is it a costly thing to do (for example, in a 1600 sq ft, 2 story, 3 bed/2.5 ba house.)
I don't know how it is in your part of the country, but here (based on my experience and reading RE sites and blogs) most people wouldn't even consider buying a house with polybutylene pipes unless the owner replaces them beforehand.
I feel like I've responded to this already, but that must've been an earlier thread. My apologies if this is redundant.
I bought a 1989 home with poly pipes (and copper fittings). I knew about the issues going in, but per my realtor and everyone else we spoke with, they were seldom a problem, so we didn't sweat it. Turns out, some of my neighbors have had some catastrophic damage from long term pinhole leaks. Long story short, we had an issue ourselves, so we repiped. All plastic is not created equal. In the south, where pipes run through crawlspaces, copper isn't necessarily the best option, since it will sweat and produce moisture in your crawl. We went with CPVC. To repipe our 1600 sf 3BR 2.5BA house, it cost just over $4K--and that included all of the drywall repair/repainting. It was a turnkey operation... The drywall dust was a BEAR to clean up, and seeing all those holes in my walls and ceilings was a little stressful, but otherwise, it really wasn't too difficult to go through. It took less than a week, and they always left us with at least one functioning bathroom/shower, as we stayed at the house the entire time. It would certainly be easier to repipe a home before you moved in and while the house was still vacant.
Unfortunately, they didn't do the supply line out to the street. Per the company, those "never" break. Ha! Well... a year later, ours sure did. Ended up with a giant sinkhole in our front yard. So after an additinal $1K and a messy dug up yard... we now have a new water supply line as well. If you decide to buy a home and repipe, I would not suggest skipping this piece.
So--should PB pipes deter you from buying a home? No... but personally, I would not stay in that home and just "wait it out." I'd have the house repiped for sure, regardless of the presence of leaks.
Our last house was in an area of maybe 25 homes, all built around 1990. About 3-4 years ago during one summer, nearly ALL the houses in the area had to have their main water line in from the street replaced because the pipes had cracked and were leaking. They pretty much all went at once.
Very irritating, although interesting to see which homeowner's insurance companies covered it and which didn't.
In the past week I've had three separate polybutylene pipes break and cause extensive damage to my home. While insurance is covering the water mitigation and repairs, it is up to me to foot the bill for the actual plumbing and then for replacing all of the bad pipes in/under my house ($2K for a 1300 sq.ft townhouse).
I would NOT recommend to anyone to buy a home that contains these types of pipes if the home was built before 1995, because the lawsuit only covers the replacement of the pipes up to 13 years after the home was built. Because my home was built in 1985, I am not eligible for any type of reimbursement for the recent problems I've encountered. I've called just about all of the numbers on the websites listed in previous threads, and all I'm told is "Sorry we can't help you."; it is beyond frustrating.
A plumber recently told me that there was a NEW lawsuit to help people like myself, however I can't find information on it anywhere. If anyone has any information about this, I would greatly appreciate its posting on this message board. Thanks!
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polybutylene pipe lawsuit
