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Old 10-12-2010, 11:25 PM
 
Location: ITL (Houston)
9,221 posts, read 15,946,339 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HtownLove View Post
go back and look at the map I posted. all of Katy is in Houston's ETJ. all Texas cities are like that. Cities can annex areas in its ETJ and the areas discussed are in Houston's ETJ.

That is just Texas law. don't make Houston out to be the evil bad guy, it is how cities do things in Texas
Yep. It's not Houston's fault that cities like Dallas let its suburbs grow too large and let them increase their own ETJ, thus cramming in Dallas even more. Fort Worth, San Antonio, and even Austin to an extent, took the Houston model.
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Old 10-12-2010, 11:28 PM
 
Location: Up on the moon laughing down on you
18,495 posts, read 32,927,318 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarface713 View Post
Yep. It's not Houston's fault that cities like Dallas let its suburbs grow too large and let them increase their own ETJ, thus cramming in Dallas even more. Fort Worth, San Antonio, and even Austin to an extent, took the Houston model.
Its the best model I think. It avoids a lot of the north east mess. The Greater Houston Partnership works well because of the strong model.
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Old 10-12-2010, 11:32 PM
 
Location: Savannah GA
13,709 posts, read 21,907,102 times
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So what exactly is the role of Harris County in all this, if at all?

Again, that extraterrestrial thing was just a Steven Spielberg movie until today. I'd never heard of a city having so much control over surrounding areas. That would never, ever fly over here in Gawja.

BTW ... Metro Atlanta has at best count 140 individual cities and towns and 28 counties (Georgia has TINY counties). How many cities are in the Houston Metro?
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Old 10-12-2010, 11:37 PM
 
Location: ITL (Houston)
9,221 posts, read 15,946,339 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newsboy View Post
So what exactly is the role of Harris County in all this, if at all?

Again, that extraterrestrial thing was just a Steven Spielberg movie until today. I'd never heard of a city having so much control over surrounding areas. That would never, ever fly over here in Gawja.

BTW ... Metro Atlanta has at best count 140 individual cities and towns and 28 counties (Georgia has TINY counties). How many cities are in the Houston Metro?
What's the role of Fulton County? You answer that, and you have your role for Harris County.
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Old 10-12-2010, 11:44 PM
 
Location: Up on the moon laughing down on you
18,495 posts, read 32,927,318 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newsboy View Post
So what exactly is the role of Harris County in all this, if at all?

Again, that extraterrestrial thing was just a Steven Spielberg movie until today. I'd never heard of a city having so much control over surrounding areas. That would never, ever fly over here in Gawja.

BTW ... Metro Atlanta has at best count 140 individual cities and towns and 28 counties (Georgia has TINY counties). How many cities are in the Houston Metro?
Its sounds like Georgia would have been better off with this system then.

So you mean in this day an age with increase transportation innovation, there are 140 mayors governing in that space?

How do they manage? How do they resolve disputes? How does anything get done? I can't imaging having all these police departments either. That just sounds like chaos to me.
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Old 10-12-2010, 11:47 PM
 
Location: Savannah GA
13,709 posts, read 21,907,102 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarface713 View Post
What's the role of Fulton County? You answer that, and you have your role for Harris County.
No, it does not. The city of Atlanta has ZERO authority over any portion of unincorporated Fulton County. And the city cannot just up and annex parts of Fulton County at will, as I explained in detail earlier.

Does Harris County provide municipal services? Water? Sewer? Roads? Schools? Recreation? Police? Fire? Emergency services? Fulton County provides all that to areas OUTSIDE of Atlanta and other cities proper.
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Old 10-13-2010, 12:01 AM
 
Location: Savannah GA
13,709 posts, read 21,907,102 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HtownLove View Post
Its sounds like Georgia would have been better off with this system then.

So you mean in this day an age with increase transportation innovation, there are 140 mayors governing in that space?

How do they manage? How do they resolve disputes? How does anything get done? I can't imaging having all these police departments either. That just sounds like chaos to me.
Well, the number of governments in the metro is probably the biggest problem Atlanta faces. But things do get done. The Atlanta Regional Commission is a planning agency made up of county and city mayors that deals with regional issues. In fact, any local projects that may affect neighboring communities (Developments of Regional Impact) must get approval from the full ARC to proceed. These can include anything from a mega shopping center to a new reservoir to a residential project with thousands of homes.

You also got to realize that Georgia counties have far, far more authority than they do in other states. Counties function like cities. In some respects, cities in Georgia act more like townships or villages than cities. And for many smaller cities, the counties may actually provide services like fire, police, emergency, recreation, libraries, etc.

But the thing that does work well is schools. In Georgia, we have COUNTY school districts, with some smaller city school systems that are hold-overs from historic times (Atlanta, Decatur, Marietta all have their own schools separate from the county). Now, to me all those Independent Texas School Districts y'all have is just mind boggling and chaotic. I understand there's no rhyme or reason to the boundaries. How many different school districts are in Harris County alone? Now THAT is chaotic!

But you think the number of cities in metro atlanta is bad, research the northeast and midwest. somebody told me on here that the Twin Cities has something like 250 different governments -- in a metro almost half the size of both Houston and Atlanta. AYE!

OK -- I just found on Wiki that Greater Houston is made up of 10 counties and only FIVE (5!) cities! Is this right? OMIGOD!


There are five "principal" cities defined by the U.S. Census as of 2009.[14] Population figures are within the city limits as of the 2008 U.S. Census estimates.[15]

More than one half of metro Atlanta's population is in unincorporated areas or areas not considered a census-designated-place (CDP) by the census bureau. Metro Atlanta includes the following incorporated and unincorporated suburbs (both inside and outside Atlanta), exurbs, and surrounding cities, sorted by population:[12]
[edit] Surrounding cities and suburbs


Last edited by Newsboy; 10-13-2010 at 12:21 AM..
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Old 10-13-2010, 12:14 AM
 
Location: ITL (Houston)
9,221 posts, read 15,946,339 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newsboy View Post
No, it does not. The city of Atlanta has ZERO authority over any portion of unincorporated Fulton County. And the city cannot just up and annex parts of Fulton County at will, as I explained in detail earlier.
This is because Atlanta does not have an ETJ like Houston.

Quote:
Does Harris County provide municipal services? Water? Sewer? Roads? Schools? Recreation? Police? Fire? Emergency services? Fulton County provides all that to areas OUTSIDE of Atlanta and other cities proper.
Yes, in many of the unincorporated areas, Harris County has sheriffs, firefighters, libraries, parks, roads, etc. MUD districts are another part of it, too. Harris County doesn't do schools, though. We have independent school districts for that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newsboy View Post
Well, the number of governments in the metro is probably the biggest problem Atlanta faces. But things do get done. You got to realize, counties have a lot more authority here than cities. In some respects, cities in Georgia act more like townships or villages than cities. And counties may often provide services to the smaller cities -- like recreation, fire, rescue and -- most notably in Georgia, schools.

See, to me all those Independent Texas School Districts y'all have is just mind boggling and chaotic. I understand there's no rhyme or reason to the boundaries. Here, there's basically county school systems, with a few city systems broken out historically (City of Atlanta, City of Decatur, City of Marietta, etc.)

But you think the number of cities in metro atlanta is bad, research the northeast and midwest. somebody told me on here that the Twin Cities has something like 250 different governments -- in a metro almost half the size of both Houston and Atlanta. AYE!

OK -- I just found on Wiki that Greater Houston is made up of 10 counties and only FIVE (5!) cities! Is this right? OMIGOD!


There are five "principal" cities defined by the U.S. Census as of 2009.[14] Population figures are within the city limits as of the 2008 U.S. Census estimates.[15]
Five cities? Where were you looking? Greater Houston is made up of way more than just five cities: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...reater_Houston
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Old 10-13-2010, 12:21 AM
 
Location: Up on the moon laughing down on you
18,495 posts, read 32,927,318 times
Reputation: 7752
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newsboy View Post
Well, the number of governments in the metro is probably the biggest problem Atlanta faces. But things do get done. You got to realize, counties have a lot more authority here than cities. In some respects, cities in Georgia act more like townships or villages than cities. And counties may often provide services to the smaller cities -- like recreation, fire, rescue and -- most notably in Georgia, schools.

See, to me all those Independent Texas School Districts y'all have is just mind boggling and chaotic. I understand there's no rhyme or reason to the boundaries. Here, there's basically county school systems, with a few city systems broken out historically (City of Atlanta, City of Decatur, City of Marietta, etc.)

But you think the number of cities in metro atlanta is bad, research the northeast and midwest. somebody told me on here that the Twin Cities has something like 250 different governments -- in a metro almost half the size of both Houston and Atlanta. AYE!

OK -- I just found on Wiki that Greater Houston is made up of 10 counties and only FIVE (5!) cities! Is this right? OMIGOD!


There are five "principal" cities defined by the U.S. Census as of 2009.[14] Population figures are within the city limits as of the 2008 U.S. Census estimates.[15]

More than one half of metro Atlanta's population is in unincorporated areas or areas not considered a census-designated-place (CDP) by the census bureau. Metro Atlanta includes the following incorporated and unincorporated suburbs (both inside and outside Atlanta), exurbs, and surrounding cities, sorted by population:[12]
[edit] Surrounding cities and suburbs

nah, there are a lot more cities than 5 in the greater Houston Area, There are at least 6 surrounded by Houston City limits alone. But no where close to 140 cities. I would say at most 30. Maybe less.

But I can't imagine all these little cities existing in one metro. No wonder the city pop is so small. I would cut that down into 10 principle cities and be done with that. Wouldn't it be more cost efficient to higher one mayor and be done with it?

EDIT: I see Scarface posted a list. I had a good guess. There are actually 31 cities, I missed it by one.
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Old 10-13-2010, 12:36 AM
 
Location: Savannah GA
13,709 posts, read 21,907,102 times
Reputation: 10217
See, didn't this turn into a good discussion?



Yes, it would be great if Metro Atlanta consolidated some of these governments, but it's not going to happen. Five new cities have been created recently -- Sandy Springs, Dunwoody, Milton, Johns Creek, Chattahoochee Hills -- and there is even talk of breaking off part of North Fulton County to reconstitute Milton County, which that area was called before the depression. The chances of that happening are nil to none, but there's a serious effort under way to make it happen (it would require a major change to the state's constitution)

And Georgia really isn't unique -- South Florida, the Chicago Area, Los Angeles all have TONS of cities. have you ever seen the number of cities in Dade County? Miami city proper is very small and surrounded by dozens of other cities. I'd say Texas is unique in this regard.

Last edited by Newsboy; 10-13-2010 at 12:47 AM..
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