Are geothermal heating/cooling systems common in Houston?

[HereItIs]

Originally Posted by alliedairtexas

In a 20 yr period. a typical 4 ton system will save over $70,000 in utilities.

That means, $3,500 savings per year....which means $300/month...
That too, a 'savings' after netting the expenses ?

Do you think anyone would buy that argument ?

[tstone]

HA - I have a 4 ton unit and my highest electric bill was $203 this summer. During the peak of the heat, it was 74 in here at night and 78 during the afternoon.

[achouston95]

Geothermal works in Houston year one, not as well year two and poorly there after.

Our sandy wet earth is a good insulator and hold the heat we pump into it during our long summer. Houston has an 8 to 9 month cooling season and almost no heating season.

For 8-9 months we pump heat into the earth and draw very little of it back out during are almost nonexistant winter. The ground around our pipe loops becomes saturated with heat after one or two seasons and thus system efficiency drops dramatically over time.

We are inthe ac business and have had customers scrap their $15,000 plus GEO systems and replace with standard AC becuse they couldn't preform once they saturated our well insulated ground. Somehow the companies that install these expensive systmes don't inform their customers of this dropiping efficiency, they point out the great efficeincy they get just after the sysem is installed.

Austin and Dallas have more bedrock and less saturated sand and more of a winter than Houston. Applicatons work better in these markets.

[Warm_in_Houston]

How much space is needed for a geothermal system? I am building on a 10,000 sq ft lot, but I'm also not sure if I'll have the room as my house is 4200 sq ft. Also, what is the upfront cost of a geothermal system?

[TomKing811]

I am interested in installing a geothermal system in La Grange TX about 120 miles west of Houston and the A/C contractor cannot find installers to install the horizontal field lines. The A/C contractor said the field line installers do not want to work in the soils there with the top two to three feet having a lot of gravel. Below the clay/gravel mix to about 2.5 feet, the soils are clay. I have offered to excavate the trenches and plan to back fill with clay soil without gravel to keep pressure points off the HDPE lines.

Am I missing something in the concept? Why is this so difficult?

[Thirdspace]

I am interested in study and cost estimate for single family approx 1400sf in Houston.
I will be in town from the 15 th of Aug at 1 832-526-7018. please contact me.

[TexasVines]

Originally Posted by alliedairtexas

Let me clear all this up. I am a geothermal installer in Houston and yes it works well, and hundreds of systems are in use. Efficiency is about 30-40 SEER, about double the best conventional systems. Heating costs about 1/4 of gas heat costs.

Ground temp here is about 72 degrees year round. This means we do not need to use antifreeze in the system. Drilling loops avg 250-300 ft each per ton, and drilling is not tough here.

Cost is higher than coventional initially, but payback is in about 3-4 years. There is a 30% federal tax rebate on installed systems.

These systems are more commonin Dallas and Austin, just because they are being pushed there more by manufacturers. Now that those markets are set, Houston is next.

An investment that pays for itself many times over. In a 20 yr period. a typical 4 ton system will save over $70,000 in utilities.

[Mod cut] TOS-advertising.

the above is good information....the systems work well in every part of the USA.....the difference in cost will be how far down the system needs to be installed before it gets to soil that is a constant temp......in Houston with a large amount of long established homes you either can't dig up the entire back year to put the loop in, the yard is too small for the proper sized loop, or it it too difficult to drill for a vertical shaft system

Originally Posted by achouston95

Geothermal works in Houston year one, not as well year two and poorly there after.

Our sandy wet earth is a good insulator and hold the heat we pump into it during our long summer. Houston has an 8 to 9 month cooling season and almost no heating season.

For 8-9 months we pump heat into the earth and draw very little of it back out during are almost nonexistant winter. The ground around our pipe loops becomes saturated with heat after one or two seasons and thus system efficiency drops dramatically over time.

We are inthe ac business and have had customers scrap their $15,000 plus GEO systems and replace with standard AC becuse they couldn't preform once they saturated our well insulated ground. Somehow the companies that install these expensive systmes don't inform their customers of this dropiping efficiency, they point out the great efficeincy they get just after the sysem is installed.

Austin and Dallas have more bedrock and less saturated sand and more of a winter than Houston. Applicatons work better in these markets.

the above is complete and total garbage......you would be much better off just stating that your company either can't or won't do the proper calculations to make sure a system is properly sized to work year around or you are not installing the loops at the proper depth or you are not properly determining the depth before installation

if you are trying to state that Dallas and Austin have dramatically different temperatures at the proper depth for a system you are crazy

if you are trying to state that the climate/temperature change from summer to winter is needed to move the transferred energy out of the soil from season to season or year to year then you have no clue what you are talking about

if you are pretending that a properly installed and sized system will somehow overload the soil area and that will start to build up long therm then you have no clue how to properly size or install a system

the "insulation factor" of a soil has nothing to do with anything on a properly sized system that is installed at the proper depth.......you are relying on the natural temperature of the earth at a particular depth and there is no chance that a house or even a decent sized commercial property could overload or overcome this factor if the system is properly sized and installed at the proper depth

can there be "soil types" that do not work or areas that do not work.....sure......if an area is like Austin where you are digging into 20 feet of hard limestone or you will never dig down far enough economically enough to get past hard rock......but at the same time you should be able to go with vertical drilled wells in this area, but then there is a cost factor to account for which is usually only efficient/cost effective for a larger property

can a soil that is gravel or constantly saturated with water from the surface not work properly because the water flowing down from the surface is carrying the temperature of the environment down with it.....yes......but you should be able to dig down past that to a point where the temperature of the earth takes over and remains constant and at that depth a properly sized and installed system will not "load the earth" to the point that the system starts to lose efficiency...is it always cost efficient to dig down to that depth...no......but a vertical shaft system could work

the vast majority of areas of Houston would make very good areas for geo systems to be installed the issue is long established homes with a lot size or lot constrictions/restrictions (like trees and utilities) that prevent a retrofit

the idea that Houston in general does not have the right type of soil or that the soil is "insulates too much" or that the soil gets loaded and stops working efficiently is just laughable and is complete and total bunk and only would be a factor in a system that is not properly sized, not properly installed, not installed at the proper depth, or that was put in a particular place where installation would not have been recommended (and that will be limited areas based on very local conditions VS the vast majority of Houston and those limited areas will be as frequent in Austin especially if not more frequent and just as frequent in dallas or anywhere else in the USA)

also $15K is probably barely enough to get the heat pump for a decent sized home much less install the loop or the well field......which says "not properly calculated and installed" all over it

it should be close to double that for a system for many average size houses

Originally Posted by TomKing811

I am interested in installing a geothermal system in La Grange TX about 120 miles west of Houston and the A/C contractor cannot find installers to install the horizontal field lines. The A/C contractor said the field line installers do not want to work in the soils there with the top two to three feet having a lot of gravel. Below the clay/gravel mix to about 2.5 feet, the soils are clay. I have offered to excavate the trenches and plan to back fill with clay soil without gravel to keep pressure points off the HDPE lines.

Am I missing something in the concept? Why is this so difficult?

the concept is so difficult because many contractors do not want to take the time to properly calculate a system and to install a system they would rather go with what they are currently knowledgeable of and have the tools and training for VS gearing up for something new

http://www.igshpa.okstate.edu/directory/directory.htm

go to this link

it is run by Oklahoma State that runs the leading university center for geothermal.....on the left you will see where you can contact certified installers by location and other factors......start contacting them VS your regular AC company

[DavidAg02]

I live in a new construction home (3, story, 4 bedroom, 2800 sq. ft.) with a geothermal A/C. I know it's new construction, and very energy efficient, but it's also 3 stories which makes it expensive to heat and cool.

I don't try to conserve electricity at all, and I'm an electronics freak... my bills never pass $170, even in the worst heat of the summer. Average of about 42 kWh per day during the summer.

[simple cooling]

Geothermal works great in any climate because of its ability to heat and cool your house, actually geothermal units are more efficient at cooling instead of in the heating mode. If drilling vertically with any type of contact with under ground water makes the geo - exchange a perfect conductor for temperature movement.

[Dopo]

Originally Posted by jfre81

Wouldn't the frequent cloud cover make solar a bit inconsistent (if much cleaner than burning more fossil fuels)?

That's assuming that you go 100% solar, which would be very dumb