Westbury neighborhood of Houston: good or no?? (Bellaire, Center: apartments, rent)

[deckhanddavy]

Nothing. My reply wasn't aimed for debate...but it seems you're fishing for one?

[LocalPlanner]

Perhaps. But, you did make a strong assertion. As a planner I'd like to know on what you base your assertion. Statements like yours could give one the impression that planners can make places all sunshine and unicorns - what awesome power!

[deckhanddavy]

Not at all. But as a planner I can understand how you would become reactionary..it's really no big deal honestly. I didn't mean to offend. But, we are talking about suburban design that happened way before you and me. The current state of suburbia resulting from the baby boom sprawl of the 50's is in most cases pretty sad, you must admit. But, with that said nobody could have predicted the resulting slums and crime we now know today. 50 years ago developers were racing to get the consumer where they wanted to be, with little disregard to the outcome. In a sense, it was unknown territory...the marvel of track housing, freeway access to large chain stores, the never ending construction of retail outlets and shopping plazas...it was a new way if thinking back in the day. In many ways, it worked...for a while.

[LocalPlanner]

Yes I would agree that the design of some aspects of places like Westbury etc. didn't generate lasting value, either from the architecture of the homes (though some still find them appealing) or from the environment of the public and commercial areas. Once the other value-generating aspects of the neighborhood - schools, home condition, security, proximity to desirable commercial centers - became lower than areas further out, there was nothing that would help the area hold value. And thus, decline. Some of this was out of the power of a planner to do much about (regional economic crash in the 1980s), but one wonders if the area had been better designed to start with that it might have held on better.

There's only so many middle class and affluent households to go around, and a place has to have a good value proposition (quality homes or lots, great "place" quality, location central to jobs and urban leisure amenities) in order to remain competitive if the basics of the neighborhood schools and security begin to change.

[testmo]

localplanner - how good of a planner are you supposed to be?

Westbury isn't in decline and property values here are pushing anything in any of the major suburbs.

westbury also isn't a hotspot for crime or an "unsavory demographic" unless you mean there are a few black people here. but if that is what you meant you got other problems


people really need to stop talking about COH neighborhoods versus suburbs. it's just getting scary

[LocalPlanner]

How good a planner I am is not for me to judge. I will say that I make an OK living at it.

I know that Westbury is not in decline at present. However, it took a big blow from the late 1980s to the late 1990s and has had to recover. It took a bigger blow than many older commuter suburb areas like Memorial. In the 1990s, many suburban areas within the city limits like Westbury were much cheaper than outlying suburbs because the portion of home value due to perceived school quality and security - which comprise nearly all the value in most commuter suburbs - had evaporated.

It was built as a commuter suburb, that happened to be within the city limits of Houston, back when Houston was much, much smaller; hardly anyone lived in Fort Bend County, so competition was limited. When new development in Fort Bend County offered up to date homes, "good schools", and "security" at a more expensive but still affordable price, Westbury couldn't compete. It has taken time for the location value of being (relatively) close to the urban core, still offering suburban sized lots, to compensate for that. Many formerly suburban areas like Alief, Spring Branch, Sharpstown, and Inwood have yet to realize that value.

[houston lover]

City planner - if Houston had some zoning or even proper ordinance laws that did not allow a ton of apartments to be built in one area, then it would help. Spring Branch is blowing up because of their schools, I thought this was something everyone was pretty much hip to now considering the new builds, etc. Gulfton is probably the one place that has prime property that no one can gentrify because it has a ton of apartments that cater to a lower class. The population is too high for the area, people can rent cheap and comes the crime. Being right next to Bellaire and blocks away from $600,000 homes, it is prime real estate but no one will enter that territory because of 1. the schools - which are likely to change because of their non profit sponsorship and the HISD bond approval and 2. the apartments

But anyway, back to your question about urban planning (or the failure thereof) - having no ordinances or lax permits allows these apartment owners to barely keep up dilapidated buildings and let anyone in. Developers continue to stack apartments all in one area because they can - to our city's detriment. For one apartment complex, a neighborhood's other strengths may combat it but for many in one place, the area is over-run with a lower class and that affects its schools and real estate. (they seem to go hand in hand, don't they). The point is - there is a reason why there are so many professionals who move to Houston only to move out to another city (Sugarland, Katy, Woodlands). The "Houston Problem" is pushing them away. They can afford better schools, a safer place and choose the commute over living in the city. Something needs to be done about it because there only so many single, childless urban pioneers who will buy homes in questionable areas and it takes a long time to effect change this way.

[LocalPlanner]

So, it's essentially about apartments - you think the government should limit their supply through regulation, correct? I wonder what you think of the current apartment explosion in the city - though they're hardly planned to be low-rent. Maybe they'll push down demand and/or rents at existing older complexes if too much supply happens at once, though our strong job growth will soak up a lot of them.

As I've noted on another board, the most important factor in residential real estate in Houston seems to be what types of children are located in a particular school attendance zone - specifically, what are the incomes of their parents. Everything else seems to flow from that, except in the highest-demand areas of the urban core where other factors are more important.

[wclanton423]

Instead of building more apartment complexes when there isn't even a high occupancy rate, it would be nice if the exisiting apartments could get a face lift. I bought in Westbury close to Westbury High School over a year ago. I posted on this forum and I got a ton of direct messages telling me to stay away from Westbury, the crime is high, get a high class alarm system. it made me super nervous but I'm glad I did my research and went with my gut. Just in the past year I'm already seeing homes for sale go up in my area. I did alot of driving in Westbury before I bought and could see how parts of it were already on the up and up and could see the direction it was going. If you take a drive down South Post Oak before Main you can see how lots of buildings are no longer there or they are being remodeled. My neighbors are the best. Westbury is a neighborhood where everyone knows everyone on their street and everyone looks out for their neighbors. I have neighbors that edge my lawn without asking and take my trash out for me because they know I work crazy hours. I think what could greatly change Westbury for the better would be to get the shopping and strip centers revamped, add some more restaurants and a much better grocery store and clean up all the ghetto looking apartments. I only see Westbury going up from here.

[houston lover]

Local Planner -

I think that a large number of apartments in the same area is not a good idea but I am not wholly adopting this belief yet. Also, I am confused at how such shoddy and old apartments seem to be still in existence. That, coupled with the section 8 housing explosion is a problem. The fact is- you bring in section 8 and everyone else starts to flee because crime rates tend to go up. Get a large number of section 8 apartments in one area, and the fate of that neighborhood is sealed. Even when apartments start off as wonderful developments, putting so many in one area can really hurt the neighborhood if the neighborhood is in decline. If they are put up next to residential housing, it will affect the property values and if the neighborhood is in decline and they become section 8, it will change the entire dynamic of the neighborhood. Parts of Westbury (but mostly the area West of Hillcroft, which is not Westbury but butts up to it) are affected by section 8 housing apartments.

Yes, the socioeconomic background of children matter, but only to the extent that it affects their school work. The children of more affluent parents tend to have more help tutoring, more interest in their studies, more time with parents, and parents for whom English is their first language (which helps the child's language skills in turn). In the more affluent school districts, the education level tend to be higher, so more challenging work is given to students and this is what parents are looking for. Some parents are trying avoid the interaction their kids will get in a low socioeconomic community. I don't know what to say about this exactly, but that kids will have to interact with people from different backgrounds their entire lives and you can shield them in private school, but not from the world.

It also matters that a school is not a large percentage of one ethnicity or another. A balanced school population is a good idea. People don't like to send their kids to schools where they are un represented.

On another note, I love Houston, but it tends to be a seedy city. There really is not good stock of moderately valued homes in safe areas. It seems like if we drew more professionals into Houston, rather than losing them to the outlying towns, it would benefit Houston's infrastructure and schools as more tax money is brought in. It seems to me that a concerted effort, one neighborhood at a time, would make a huge effect on the decisions of professionals to choose moderately priced homes within Houston. I like what they are trying to do with the Braes Oaks Management District. That Bellfort area west of Hillcroft needs some serious attention.

I enjoy talking with you on this subject.