Hows the law market in Houston for UT Law grads?

[jimboburnsy]

Originally Posted by micmac99

I'm a graphic designer, and while that seems unrelated to this discussion, my field is also oversaturated with talent with few openings nationwide right now.

I am pretty liberal politically and have been very critical of O&G over the years, but I do realize I chose to move to a "company town", and just like when I lived in Las Vegas and applied for jobs in the corporate offices of "gaming" companies, here in Houston I will work for the right O&G firm IF they are the "lesser of two (or more) evils" to coin a phrase. There are a couple I will never send a resume to under any circumstances, however.

I would also very much like to go into business for myself and actively trying to market my services as a branding and logo expert. That's preferable to working for a company, but I need a lot of clients who are willing to pay more than $49.99 for a logo package for a business that could make millions in revenue.

Hell, I'm a sold-out oilman and there are a couple I wouldn't send a resume to under any circumstances...

[dosto]

Originally Posted by jimboburnsy

There are a lot of people who wanted to go to law school that weren't really that sure why they wanted to go to law school that are now working as landmen. Having a legal education is great for landmen, but you don't need to bear $80,000+ dollars in tuition fees to be a landman.

My husband went to law school (1st tier). He did know why and what he wanted to do. Unfortunately, $150K later, he realized that he just couldn't get into the field he wanted to do (even with his internships), so...landman was the path. He loved the job, but not with $150K of debt.
BTW, to get into landman you'll need connections. The times when they'd get just anyone off the street have passed.

Think twice before going to law school, because the market for lawyers in Houston (and in the US in general) is bad. Very bad.

Unless, you got a free ride :-)

[TexasVines]

if you think "selling your soul" would be working in big oil then you don't have a chance in hell of having success in any aspect of the legal field

with that attitude my advice would be get a masters degree in social services and be broke with a lot less student debt and a lot better chance at getting a really crappy job

[kdb05f]

What is a landman?

[newlymarried]

I've been practicing law for two years. Jobs exist in Houston, but it's competitive. And unlike a few years ago, you're competing with nationwide candidates -- Harvard, Yale, Northwestern. Students who used to avoid Texas now flock here. You need connections, great grades, good extracurriculars, and a lot of hard work. It was a hard reality check for a lot of my peers who expected that a law degree meant that job offers would fall at their feet (not all that unreasonable of an expectation, given the market 7 years ago.)

Not that you asked, but I think the happiest lawyers took a few years off after undergrad. Those of us who did knew why we were in law school and what we wanted out of the experience. We were better able to endure the ego blows and hard knocks law school provides on a regular basis. We've ended up in places that make us happier and we're overall more satisfied with our careers. (Which is not to say necessarily the most lucrative positions, but the ones that fit our values and lives.)

I have a great job and I love my work, but most of my colleagues who went straight through do not. In fact, many are miserable because they weren't clear on what they wanted.

Don't go to law school because you don't know what else to do with your degree, Aunt Ellen told you you can do "anything" with a law degree, or because you think guaranteed employment will follow. The legal field is oversaturated and a lot of people are doing work far below what they were trained for. Go to law school because you want to be a lawyer -- until you know that for a fact, don't go.

[jimboburnsy]

Originally Posted by kdb05f

What is a landman?

A petroleum landman wears a lot of hats, but central to the job is the ability to research mineral title and make accurate determinations about the ownership as well as the ability to negotiate the terms of legal instruments. In a nutshell.

There are also several different kinds of landman. Broad strokes.

[philopower]

Originally Posted by newlymarried

I've been practicing law for two years. Jobs exist in Houston, but it's competitive. And unlike a few years ago, you're competing with nationwide candidates -- Harvard, Yale, Northwestern. Students who used to avoid Texas now flock here. You need connections, great grades, good extracurriculars, and a lot of hard work. It was a hard reality check for a lot of my peers who expected that a law degree meant that job offers would fall at their feet (not all that unreasonable of an expectation, given the market 7 years ago.)

Not that you asked, but I think the happiest lawyers took a few years off after undergrad. Those of us who did knew why we were in law school and what we wanted out of the experience. We were better able to endure the ego blows and hard knocks law school provides on a regular basis. We've ended up in places that make us happier and we're overall more satisfied with our careers. (Which is not to say necessarily the most lucrative positions, but the ones that fit our values and lives.)

I have a great job and I love my work, but most of my colleagues who went straight through do not. In fact, many are miserable because they weren't clear on what they wanted.

Don't go to law school because you don't know what else to do with your degree, Aunt Ellen told you you can do "anything" with a law degree, or because you think guaranteed employment will follow. The legal field is oversaturated and a lot of people are doing work far below what they were trained for. Go to law school because you want to be a lawyer -- until you know that for a fact, don't go.

Thanks for your opinion! My LSAT (practice tests) and GPA are right along columbia/harvard's territory, but I'm looking at UT Law mainly because I'm exempt from paying tuition at state schools. It would be nice to go to an ivy, but I'm not sure if it's worth going into six figures of debt for.

[Topaz]

Originally Posted by HoustonRonnie

Call the UT Law School placement office.

If they are like most college career service offices, they won't help you until you are actually enrolled in the law school or an alum. (The OP said he is considering law school, not that he is a law school student already).

[newlymarried]

Well, sounds like you're well on your way. I'm assuming you're a veteran (that's the only program I know of that exempts the student from tuition.) I think you're smart to think about debt. And I think it matters what you want to do.

If you want to join the Supreme Court, you need to go to Harvard or Yale. If you want to leave Texas, you might be able to do it with a UT degree, but definitely could with an Ivy degree. A friend of mine refers to law as "the last American aristocracy." And he's partially right. Unlike undergrad, the name of your law school follows you your entire career -- and it will open or shut doors accordingly. UT is considered a "national" school, though, so you'd probably be fine.

And six figure debt is crushing -- a lot of my friends did that and now can't leave the job they hate because they have to pay back debt. Furthermore, you can't count on a starting salary of six figures anymore, so you can end up in major financial trouble fast.

That being said, if you want to work in Houston, you will deal with oil companies. They will be your clients, they will be the people you sue, or your clients will work for them. (Like if you go into family law.) That's just a business reality -- saying you won't work with oil is like stating you won't be dealing with the military if you work in Killeen.

I'd recommend you do some internships with law firms or other lawyers before you commit to law school. Even if tuition is paid for, it's a huge commitment of time and energy. Make sure you want to do the work lawyers do -- which is rarely what people think we do. Being happy in your job is key to happiness in life in general.

[philopower]

Originally Posted by newlymarried

Well, sounds like you're well on your way. I'm assuming you're a veteran (that's the only program I know of that exempts the student from tuition.) I think you're smart to think about debt. And I think it matters what you want to do.

If you want to join the Supreme Court, you need to go to Harvard or Yale. If you want to leave Texas, you might be able to do it with a UT degree, but definitely could with an Ivy degree. A friend of mine refers to law as "the last American aristocracy." And he's partially right. Unlike undergrad, the name of your law school follows you your entire career -- and it will open or shut doors accordingly. UT is considered a "national" school, though, so you'd probably be fine.

And six figure debt is crushing -- a lot of my friends did that and now can't leave the job they hate because they have to pay back debt. Furthermore, you can't count on a starting salary of six figures anymore, so you can end up in major financial trouble fast.

That being said, if you want to work in Houston, you will deal with oil companies. They will be your clients, they will be the people you sue, or your clients will work for them. (Like if you go into family law.) That's just a business reality -- saying you won't work with oil is like stating you won't be dealing with the military if you work in Killeen.

I'd recommend you do some internships with law firms or other lawyers before you commit to law school. Even if tuition is paid for, it's a huge commitment of time and energy. Make sure you want to do the work lawyers do -- which is rarely what people think we do. Being happy in your job is key to happiness in life in general.

Yeah im definitely not looking into entering politics and im most definitely staying in Texas at all costs, all my friends are here and all my family is here. No point in leaving.

Thanks for all your advice, im going to start seeking internships so that I can get a feel for the business. This school has been great to me and ive met many UT Law alumni who are extremely successful. Only time will tell.