do you think Commuter Rail will ever come to the 'burbs? (Houston: how much, home)

[TexasTallest]

Originally Posted by Spade

A better bus network and a rail system is what is needed for the entire city especially the inner loop. Like Dopo said, you can have rail all you want in the burbs, but if you can't get anywhere in the inner city, what good does it do?

like i said a few pages back, this whole topic was posted with the presumption that by the time commuter rail would actually be built, the light rail system would be built out to its envisioned plan, and possibly have more lines planned by that time.

Originally Posted by Spade

The same people who pay for the roads to get you from the inner city to your suburb.

exactly.

[HtownLove]

Originally Posted by TexasTallest

honestly the first two statements seem like all the more reason commuter rail to the suburbs should be built.

Not saying that it should not be built, but the plans that I have seen have been to Hempstead, MoCity, Sugar Land, TW, etc with a finished date of 2035. By then other areas might be the rage.

The purple dots on this map are the current Hot Spots for mass transit:
http://www.railway-technology.com/pr...mages/img5.gif

and this is the 2040 plan with all the various options other than the regular bus:
http://supporthoustontransit.org/201...opy_poster.jpg

looks like the are going to stop the 102 (Airport limited) from running downtown and instead run from the Airport to the NorthLine Transit center. Essentially doubling the running time from the beltway to Downtown during peak hours (The 102 uses the HOV lanes during rush hour)

This is existing rail tracks that were explored as options for dual use: (Commercial and Passenger)
http://www.houston.org/uploadedImage...L%203-1-10.jpg

This is the park and ride routes:
http://www.lightrailnow.org/images/h...ns-bus-map.jpg

And the lightrail lines:
http://offcite.org/wp-content/upload...ton2012lrt.jpg

Here is the progress on the light rail lines under construction:
Construction Progress

They are scheduled to open sometime next year. Keeping fingers crossed

[Spacecityroller]

Originally Posted by HtownLove

for light rail 90% of the blame is on just a handful of people.

Anyway, the current lines had previously lost funded because they tried getting foreign builders when the funding requirements clearly forbade it.

There are three lubes that will open at once that is going to be a major change.

The first commuter rail is slated for 2018 with all if then in place by 2035 but both deadline are over optimistic.

HtownLove is correct.

Here's the links.

Plans Move Ahead For Houston’s New Commuter Rail Line | Transportation Nation

METRO Current Projects - US 90A/Southwest Rail Corridor




The others are not nearly as far along, but Missouri City will be the first suburb to be connected. Its not to far a stretch to see Sugarland maybe decide to have this line go about 2 miles farther and make it a game changer in the battle for the best suburb in greater Houston. That might motivate other suburbs to make some noise to get connected also.

[apm193]

Originally Posted by theSUBlime

In a major city, there is public transportation, so you're making the wrong argument. We're not talking about people who are choosing between public transportation and driving. People who want to drive will drive and the people who want to take public transportation will take public transportation. When implementing a new transit system, municipalities look at not only what they have, but what they can expand on. Obviously, attracting more riders is a goal, but it's not the main goal. The point is to move people around more efficiently and multiple modes of transportation does that. (No one is trying to convert anyone here.) While it might seem like a poor investment right now, this city is growing and will need more options in the future, and that's exactly what it's about. Houstonians are also wary of the idea of the things they don't know, as they should be, but the point is that if someone was without a car for a day they'd more likely choose rail over bus, and that's what should be coupled with bus service.

I agree that if someone had to decide between a bus and a train they would most likely pick the train. But it's very unlikely we would see both services on the same corridor. So the public is never going to be faced with that decision. When people use public transportation they usually decide what routes to take based on travel time first, and comfort second. So unless your origin and destination are near a train station, your probably not going to be using rail. Efficiency is the main goal so we have to look at the costs and benefits of each form of transport. Rail can carry large numbers of people, but costs much more. Buses carry fewer people, but at much lower costs. Houston is not a very dense city, so there are not that many routes that need the capacity that rail provides. That's why buses are for the most part a better option in Houston.

[Spacecityroller]

http://www.gcfrd.org/docs/Final%20Re...ary%202012.pdf

This is the latest report for the commuter line along 290. All indications is that this one will happen also. But not very soon, as in after 2020 at the earliest. The new expansion of 290 is actually reserving ROW for commuter rail and all the towns along the route are now in a heated fight to have a station on this line.
I believe the engines on this line will not be electric, like the current lightrail trains.
They will be like the ones that run on Austin's lightrail.



Here's a video of the bw8 290 interchange and you can see the reserved ROW for the commuter rail *the purple in the video*.


US 290/Beltway 8 interchange - YouTube

Other rail plans in Texas are already planning around this line being built. This line is not being done my Metro, I'm guessing transfers will be needed to metro lightrail.

[theSUBlime]

Originally Posted by apm193

I agree that if someone had to decide between a bus and a train they would most likely pick the train. But it's very unlikely we would see both services on the same corridor. So the public is never going to be faced with that decision. When people use public transportation they usually decide what routes to take based on travel time first, and comfort second. So unless your origin and destination are near a train station, your probably not going to be using rail. Efficiency is the main goal so we have to look at the costs and benefits of each form of transport. Rail can carry large numbers of people, but costs much more. Buses carry fewer people, but at much lower costs. Houston is not a very dense city, so there are not that many routes that need the capacity that rail provides. That's why buses are for the most part a better option in Houston.

I think it's very likely we would see them on the same corridor. Buses already use many of the highways. Also, public transportation focuses on hubs. Most people work in one of our CBD's -- Greenway, TMC, Downtown, Galleria etc., so while there is not one way to get there, most people are usually going to take the same way. It's why the first rail line was built to go from the TMC to Downtown. The problem is the Downtown is an especially underpopulated area. However, I'd be willing to bet if there was a rail inbound to the loop from the Galleria or City Centre it would be great. No one needs to take I-10 or needs to take Westheimer, but they are the most commonly used ways of getting certain places. Yes, efficiency is the main goal, but just because you have one mode doesn't mean you can't have the other. While rail costs more, like you said, it can carry more people and more potential riders would use it. Get it? It doesn't make sense to have a 10 cheap buses when all you need is 1 expensive train that costs the same amount and the transit authority would gain more of that money used to fund the transport back. I think you need to look at some of the traffic out of your window and see that many people are headed to the same place -- not many of us are that unique. I agree our rail car was not the best design, but buses do also sit right in traffic with everyone else and make more frequent stops. We don't even need to get into the environmental and durability issues. We need both. That is why buses are not the best or only option, but I'm willing to agree to disagree if you can't see that.

[Dopo]

Originally Posted by Squidlo

I would ask you to take a look at the light rail system in Portland, Oregon. Please ask yourself who will PAY for it. The people who ride the trains? If you actually paid for the full cost of the ride "the fare" would be unacceptable to most riders. So who pays the rest? Everyone else. Once the costs are disassociated from the actual users, all sorts of things become possible.... sound familiar?

Sounds nice,
but the reality is that when cities don't pay for commuter rail, they don't save money, they end up spending that money and more building highways for the millions of cars that are on the road.

What nobody ever mentions is that this country was built by rail
I bet 90% of towns in the Midwest started as a railroad stop.
And now people act as if it's some "European socialist idea"

Even many of our highways (including Hardy toll road) took advantage of railroad right of way to build them.

[TexasTallest]

Originally Posted by Spacecityroller

HtownLove is correct.

Here's the links.

Plans Move Ahead For Houston’s New Commuter Rail Line | Transportation Nation

METRO Current Projects - US 90A/Southwest Rail Corridor




The others are not nearly as far along, but Missouri City will be the first suburb to be connected. Its not to far a stretch to see Sugarland maybe decide to have this line go about 2 miles farther and make it a game changer in the battle for the best suburb in greater Houston. That might motivate other suburbs to make some noise to get connected also.

i wish it were true but they put it on hold.

"On September 28, 2012, METRO's Board of Directors placed the US 90A/Southwest Rail Corridor project on hold to reassess investment priorities in the region via the Transit Re-imagining Plan. The purpose of the Re-imagining Plan is to take a fresh look at the METRO service area (given our existing transit facilities and level of financial resources) and design a regional transit system from the ground up with a “blank - slate” approach."

METRO Current Projects - US 90A/Southwest Rail Corridor

[hbcu]

these politicians can do what they want.....these plans and studies are waste of money when people know rail takes cars off the road and cash out of some peoples pockets....

[jeremy2788]

Originally Posted by Spade

The same people who pay for the roads to get you from the inner city to your suburb.

Funny how people that don't want anything to do with public transportation and always complain that they would be the ones paying for other peoples transportation forget they have been the ones having their mode of transportation paid for for a long time now by the public. But gee, if it is not their preferred mode of transportation, they could give a damn what the rest of the public wants.