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Her comment wasn't off base, it addressed your concerns precisely. She just shared a view that you didn't want to hear: that, in her experience as a hiring manager, it is very likely that your rejection had nothing to do with race.
In response, you invite her to no longer respond and you called her post "unproductive to the forum". You apparently need to be reminded of your own "thesis" and that your post implied an invitation to all views on your hiring problem. This isn't the place to have an undercover rant about liberal or race politics. If you want to do so using your perception of the situation, with no alternate views to the problem that you presented, then I invite you to "exercise your prerogative" to post on the politics forum.
Second, you used the word "condescend" incorrectly. Perhaps your grasp of the English language was the reason you did not get hired. I'm not trying to be snarky, as that could very well be the case. A native English speaker would never use 'condescend' as you attempted to use it and if your language is peppered with incorrect vocabulary then that is a very valid reason to be rejected from any position, especially in corporate America.
Last, you're an admitted immigrant to this country. If I were to immigrant to France or Morocco, I would not be so 'revolutionary' and judgmental in my politics. I would know what I was embracing and go there with a full heart and wanting to adapt to the existing culture, or I would stay home. I would not go, immigrate, and proceed call a country 'dysfunctional' to the face of natives, nor would I go celebrating the fact that I was supporting a cultural revolution, as an immigrant, in the faces of the majority who embraced me in good faith. I would adapt the best that I could to their ways and existing society, knowing that I was an outsider and that they were being magnanimous in taking me in to their nation. I would support them and not rail on about change (revolution). As an immigrant, your tirade is both rude and ungrateful, especially to those whose families have been here for many generations and have sacrificed much more for this country that have you, and who have less of an entitlement complex (political, employment, etc.).
Apologies for getting back to you a little late, I had some phone screens. Anyway, I initially wanted to pass on your post, because it appears rather juvenile, but I decided a little mature discussion would probably be of assistance to you.
First of all, it appears you have a bent for taking things out of context. I am not sure why you do that. I never said that CindyDavis should not respond to my posts or any others here. In essence, I said she rather not, if she was going to continue in the same tone (of accusing me baselessly) without knowing the facts of the matter. As a native speaker, you should probably know how to extract meaning and intent from statements correctly.
Secondly, your apparent facility in English belies your assertion of being a native speaker. The word "condescend" is applied correctly for your information, and has more than on meaning; so you might want to check that in Webster's for your benefit. Anyway, I will overlook the errors in your written communication. I will not focus on your English, because it would be equally childish of me. And for the record, I will not condescend)) However, try and remove the log in your eye, before you complain about the speck in another person's. Now, on to more pertinent matters...
Thirdly, (and this may be a shock to you), we are all immigrants in this land, except Native Americans. The difference is just that some of us came here earlier than others. So I am not offended by you calling me an admitted immigrant, you are right, of course I am, and our Government saw something in me (and thousands of others) to grant me that responsibility, to the extent of granting me access and high clearance to work on the 4th most sought after defense technology, which you will probably never have insight to, and which incidentally keeps you safe, by giving this nation's venerable heroes superiority. So in the eyes of our Government, we are both citizens with the same rights and privileges, whether your ancestors came here in 1612, 1799, 1840 or not, it is of no consequence. So really our Government does not care about stuff like that...do you realize some of this nations great men and women of authority were not born here - Madeleine Albright, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Henry Kissinger, George Romney, Michael Blumenthal, Elaine Chao etc. So having been born elsewhere is irrelevant, what actually is relevant is what value one brings to this nation.
Next, you once again take my words out of context. Are you in media communications or something...golly? Because those guys take everything out of context and put a spin on the story, exactly in the manner you are doing. You claim I called this nation, "dysfunctional" as a present day reality? However, what I really said, if you keep it in context is, "...dysfunctional PAST" [keyword - PAST]. World history shows us that EVERY nation on earth has some kind of dysfunctional past. For example, Nazi Germany murdering 6 million Jews is a dysfunctional past, British soldiers coming to the young US and committing horrendous acts and atrocities is a dysfunctional past (watch the movie "The Patriot"), slavery in the Sudan is dysfunctional, Hutus and Tutsis murdering each other on a national scale is a dysfunctional past, sending citizens to their death in Siberian gulags is a dysfunctional past, assassinating an innocent civil rights activist, by placing the reticle of a weapons sight on his head, acquiring the target and launching the projectile is a dysfunctional past, debarring a group from attending college is a dysfunctional past, calling a group of people in this nation "taco" eaters is absolutely offensive, and is a dysfunctional past, discriminating against another group via unfair taxation, while they worked the mines in the West is a dysfunctional past, tying a man to the back of a truck and dragging him till he dies is a dysfunctional past, devastating communities of Native Americans is a dysfunctional past...you want me to go on, or do you get the picture now? So I WILL not support and carry on in the dysfunctional PAST of this nation (as your post suggests) or any other for that matter (not even the land of my birth), I will not discriminate, I will not racially or culturally profile, BUT I will tend toward a brighter, freer, and more equal opportunity future for this nation. And you too have a choice; you either remain on the band wagon that is going backwards, by embracing and supporting past dysfunctional attitudes, or join the majority of us in this forum on the band wagon headed towards a brighter future. As a hint, I would choose the latter...
Lastly, I would be glad to continue this educational discussion on your behalf, but not here, for the sake of others in this forum. The job market in Houston is what I am interested in here. However, if you wish, we may continue the debate and I can provide an email initially, for that purpose.
Apologies for getting back to you a little late, I had some phone screens. Anyway, I initially wanted to pass on your post, because it appears rather juvenile, but I decided a little mature discussion would probably be of assistance to you.
First of all, it appears you have a bent for taking things out of context. I am not sure why you do that. I never said that CindyDavis should not respond to my posts or any others here. In essence, I said she rather not, if she was going to continue in the same tone (of accusing me baselessly) without knowing the facts of the matter. As a native speaker, you should probably know how to extract meaning and intent from statements correctly.
Secondly, your apparent facility in English belies your assertion of being a native speaker. The word "condescend" is applied correctly for your information, and has more than on meaning; so you might want to check that in Webster's for your benefit. Anyway, I will overlook the errors in your written communication. I will not focus on your English, because it would be equally childish of me. And for the record, I will not condescend)) However, try and remove the log in your eye, before you complain about the speck in another person's. Now, on to more pertinent matters...
Thirdly, (and this may be a shock to you), we are all immigrants in this land, except Native Americans. The difference is just that some of us came here earlier than others. So I am not offended by you calling me an admitted immigrant, you are right, of course I am, and our Government saw something in me (and thousands of others) to grant me that responsibility, to the extent of granting me access and high clearance to work on the 4th most sought after defense technology, which you will probably never have insight to, and which incidentally keeps you safe, by giving this nation's venerable heroes superiority. So in the eyes of our Government, we are both citizens with the same rights and privileges, whether your ancestors came here in 1612, 1799, 1840 or not, it is of no consequence.
Next, you once again take my words out of context. Are you in media communications or something...golly? Because those guys take everything out of context and put a spin on the story, exactly in the manner you are doing. You claim I called this nation, "dysfunctional" as a present day reality? However, what I really said, if you keep it in context is, "...dysfunctional PAST" [keyword - PAST]. World history shows us that EVERY nation on earth has some kind of dysfunctional past. For example, Nazi Germany murdering 6 million Jews is a dysfunctional past, British soldiers coming to the young US and committing horrendous acts and atrocities is a dysfunctional past (watch the movie "The Patriot"), slavery in the Sudan is dysfunctional, Hutus and Tutsis murdering each other on a national scale is a dysfunctional past, sending citizens to their death in Siberian gulags is a dysfunctional past, assassinating an innocent civil rights activist, by placing the reticle of a weapons sight on his head, acquiring the target and launching the projectile is a dysfunctional past, debarring a group from attending college is a dysfunctional past, calling a group of people in this nation "taco" eaters is absolutely offensive, and is a dysfunctional past, discriminating against another group via unfair taxation, while they worked the mines in the West is a dysfunctional past, tying a man to the back of a truck and dragging him till he dies is a dysfunctional past, devastating communities of Native Americans is a dysfunctional past...you want me to go on, or do you get the picture now? So I WILL not support the dysfunctional PAST of this nation or any other for that matter (not even the land of my birth), but I will tend toward a brighter, freer, and more equal opportunity future for this nation. And you have a choice; you either remain on the band wagon that is going backwards, by embracing and supporting past dysfunctional attitudes, or join the majority of us in this forum on the band wagon headed to a brighter future.
Lastly, I would be glad to continue this educational discussion on your behalf, but not here, for the sake of others in this forum. The job market in Houston is what I am interested in here. However, if you wish, we may continue the debate and I can provide an email initially, for that purpose.
Whomever it was that decided not to give you an offer appears to have been pretty insightful. You are an exceptional complainer and think very highly of yourself. Not a great combination for the workplace.
Whomever it was that decided not to give you an offer appears to have been pretty insightful. You are an exceptional complainer and think very highly of yourself. Not a great combination for the workplace.
Actually, not true. I do not like talking about myself. There is nothing about me. I am just an "admitted immigrant" )))) [according to golgi1], now a citizen. I come from humble beginnings, but learned early on in life to set goals and pursue dreams, to persevere and be tenacious in the face of opposition - social, economic, psychological, you name it. But when people insinuate and take things out of context, I just try to explain the facts. I like living by the facts, wherever possible, and I have endeavored to communicate that per my experience with the fellow. To be honest, I really think the man did me a favor, unbeknownst to him, because thanks to him, I am redirecting my career location to larger, more ethnically and culturally diverse cities, and there is something about Houston that sounds so appealing and holds a promise for the long run.
The OP also declines to tell us where he or she is from. I think it is relevant. That is because I would ask if the country of his or her origin is currently as liberal as he or she would have the USA be?
Well?
Is the OP's country of origin "for everyone" or just for people of his or her ethnic stripe? How liberal are your people? Are there people from all over the world hired, without discrimination, at all levels of business and government in your country of origin? Why or why not? I suspect that you have some work left to do at home before you criticize us 'dysfunctional' Americans who have made you a citizen.
Str8Talk has a right to not identify gender or race. Not really important to me, personally. But a wild guess, he/she is probably not caucassian, else would have most likely gotten the job going on his/her stated facts.
Not sure Str8Talk called us Americans 'dysfunctional', I read the posts and he/she says '...dysfunctional past'. Just being fair.
Her comment wasn't off base, it addressed your concerns precisely. She just shared a view that you didn't want to hear: that, in her experience as a hiring manager, it is very likely that your rejection had nothing to do with race.
In response, you invite her to no longer respond and you called her post "unproductive to the forum". You apparently need to be reminded of your own "thesis" and that your post implied an invitation to all views on your hiring problem. This isn't the place to have an undercover rant about liberal or race politics. If you want to do so using your perception of the situation, with no alternate views to the problem that you presented, then I invite you to "exercise your prerogative" to post on the politics forum.
Second, you used the word "condescend" incorrectly. Perhaps your grasp of the English language was the reason you did not get hired. I'm not trying to be snarky, as that could very well be the case. A native English speaker would never use 'condescend' as you attempted to use it and if your language is peppered with incorrect vocabulary then that is a very valid reason to be rejected from any position, especially in corporate America.
Last, you're an admitted immigrant to this country. If I were to immigrant to France or Morocco, I would not be so 'revolutionary' and judgmental in my politics. I would know what I was embracing and go there with a full heart and wanting to adapt to the existing culture, or I would stay home. I would not go, immigrate, and proceed call a country 'dysfunctional' to the face of natives, nor would I go celebrating the fact that I was supporting a cultural revolution, as an immigrant, in the faces of the majority who embraced me in good faith. I would adapt the best that I could to their ways and existing society, knowing that I was an outsider and that they were being magnanimous in taking me in to their nation. I would support them and not rail on about change (revolution). As an immigrant, your tirade is both rude and ungrateful, especially to those whose families have been here for many generations and have sacrificed much more for this country that have you, and who have less of an entitlement complex (political, employment, etc.).
Just out of curiosity, I checked the word "condescend" -
1 a: to descend to a less formal or dignified level .
It has more than one meaning, and Str8Talk applied it correctly. We may be native speakers, but can be wrong too.
Whomever it was that decided not to give you an offer appears to have been pretty insightful. You are an exceptional complainer and think very highly of yourself. Not a great combination for the workplace.
+1 to this.
The OP seems more enraged that he didn't get the job offer than anything. Sometimes you get fed a line like "we don't think you'll be challenged here" when someone is being polite and doesn't want to tell you they don't like your attitude. It's called being let down gently.
But if you've got such an ego to assume you could never be a problem, I guess racism is the only logical conclusion.
The OP seems more enraged that he didn't get the job offer than anything. Sometimes you get fed a line like "we don't think you'll be challenged here" when someone is being polite and doesn't want to tell you they don't like your attitude. It's called being let down gently.
But if you've got such an ego to assume you could never be a problem, I guess racism is the only logical conclusion.
No reason to continue this, it is becoming rediculous! After he/she laid out the facts, it is quite obvious that he/she did not get the job on other grounds, and not because he/she was "overqualified" or whatever, or else the CEO would not write, "get this guy in here asap" on the resume, or rearrange his schedule to meet with him/her.
According to the account, the executive was astonished to see him/her. I don't think str8talk was wearing a clown suit or pj's either or had some severe fcial deformation. This very likely had to do with racial persuation. It could be the "credential-raace disparity" syndrome some people still have in their minds. He/ she appears to have a strong personality, A-type perhaps, he/she seems to stick to facts and figures and not fables, and C-level folks usually seek this combination in strong candidates.
I think that it was based on race, call it institutional racism, discrimination or whatever. It happens; and he/she might have just encountered it in the obvious. Unless of course, the executive was intellectually intimidated by him/her, probably for not being of the same race...which would be a shame and all the more reason not to work for the executive. Just my two cents...
While racism might of been the case, I find Houston to be very diverse in the job environment. I am in engineering for OG&C, and at some of the top firms, being from the US would put you in the minority. People want to make sure you fit in well with the job and some employers are easy to read when letting you down, while others are not. Like what was said before, your resume got your foot in the door; it is then your attitude and personality that decides whether or not you get the job.
I can only offer this advice for the job market in Houston. While the market is great, especially for the energy industry, you have to realize that these top salaries will bring people from all over because of this. HR moves slowly in some of these companies. I think you will find some very interesting interview patterns in Houston, and the higher up you go, the more diversified you will find the interview questions/responses. Not all company's will follow typical STARS standards, and since Houston is home to many Fortune 20 HQ's, you can expect the unexpected.
No reason to continue this, it is becoming rediculous! After he/she laid out the facts, it is quite obvious that he/she did not get the job on other grounds, and not because he/she was "overqualified" or whatever, or else the CEO would not write, "get this guy in here asap" on the resume, or rearrange his schedule to meet with him/her.
According to the account, the executive was astonished to see him/her. I don't think str8talk was wearing a clown suit or pj's either or had some severe fcial deformation. This very likely had to do with racial persuation. It could be the "credential-raace disparity" syndrome some people still have in their minds. He/ she appears to have a strong personality, A-type perhaps, he/she seems to stick to facts and figures and not fables, and C-level folks usually seek this combination in strong candidates.
I think that it was based on race, call it institutional racism, discrimination or whatever. It happens; and he/she might have just encountered it in the obvious. Unless of course, the executive was intellectually intimidated by him/her, probably for not being of the same race...which would be a shame and all the more reason not to work for the executive. Just my two cents...
It could have very easily been his attitude or a comment he made that caused the interview to go sour, which is probably more likely than the color of his skin.
Not saying racism doesn't exist anymore, but I've never heard of someone being denied a job offer in a technical field because of their race. This is especially true in the Aerospace field where your minority employment can give you what most would consider an unfair advantage when dealing with the government. It's for that reason I've actually heard of reverse racism occurring, but never racism. It's just "bad business," and as with most things in life, people follow the money.
Sorry, I'm just not buying it when the OP is so doggedly abrasive in this thread. I know *I* wouldn't give him a job if I were interviewing him and he acted like that, and it would be based 100% on his behavior and attitude.
It could have very easily been his attitude or a comment he made that caused the interview to go sour, which is probably more likely than the color of his skin.
Not saying racism doesn't exist anymore, but I've never heard of someone being denied a job offer in a technical field because of their race. This is especially true in the Aerospace field where your minority employment can give you what most would consider an unfair advantage when dealing with the government. It's for that reason I've actually heard of reverse racism occurring, but never racism. It's just "bad business," and as with most things in life, people follow the money.
Sorry, I'm just not buying it when the OP is so doggedly abrasive in this thread. I know *I* wouldn't give him a job if I were interviewing him and he acted like that, and it would be based 100% on his behavior and attitude.
True. At least the big contractor companies around Clear Lake are required, by policy, to sub-contract a certain percentage of minority/disadvantaged owned business. This may even have been dictated by NASA as terms for awarding a contract, but I forget. Anyway I fail to see how an environment like this could allow a for a prejudiced, obviously high-profile CEO to exist. A highly educated workforce would not tolerate that junk.
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