Is Houston red light camera still working? (dangerous, adjudication)

[PedroMartinez]

Originally Posted by jasonamd

It's breaking a law...just like running a red light is.

Originally Posted by theSUBlime

Speeding was not part of the analogy that was made. Please read.

He said that robbing a store is "breaking a law just like running a red light is."

You might not realize this, but going 1 mph over the speed limit is "breaking the law"; therefore, if you go by jason's words, going 1 mph over the speed limit is like robbing a store.

[theSUBlime]

Originally Posted by PedroMartinez

He said that robbing a store is "breaking a law just like running a red light is."

You might not realize this, but going 1 mph over the speed limit is "breaking the law"; therefore, if you go by jason's words, going 1 mph over the speed limit is like robbing a store.

Right. He said "running a red light" not "going 1 mph over the speed limit." So, not exactly my friend. That is some weird logic and what we call a false analogy. I understand what he's saying and I understand what you are thinking.

The only thing that was stated was that "running a red light" is violation of the law, which is true. I think we all know that robbing a store with a gun is a violation of the law. Those are both technically true statements and share the fact that they are violations of the law. Nothing else was said to be shared, let alone the idea that "going 1 mph over the speed limit is LIKE robbing a store."

[astrohip]

Originally Posted by PedroMartinez

Yes, not clearing an intersection by the time the light turns red is just like robbing a store.

The law does NOT state you have to clear the intersection before it turns red. It says you can not ENTER the intersection after it turns red. Huge difference.

If you're gonna make asinine comments, try to be accurate.

[PedroMartinez]

Forgive me. Ok, so passing into an intersection half a second after the light turns red and robbing a store at gunpoint is the same for you then?

[eric3781]

All of you stating that "going 1mph over the speed limit" is breaking the law are wrong.

It is not breaking the law. We do not have "absolute" speed limits in Texas. We have "presumed" speed limits.

The actual letter of the law states that if you are traveling at a speed that is considered "reasonable and prudent", usually given the speed of the 85th percentile of traffic, under favorable traffic conditions and clear weather, then you are within the limits of the law. In other words, if it is a clear day with light traffic and you and 85/100 cars are going 80mph in a 70mph "speed limit" zone, you are not breaking the law.

I know this may come as a shock to all the ultra-radical law-and-order types that secretly crave an authoritarian police state where people doing 80mph in a 70 are pulled out of their cars and beaten by police, or at the very least, "punished" with frivolous traffic citations, but you will have to get your cheap, Milgramesque sexual thrills elsewhere as the law doesn't support your perverted desires.

[oceangaia]

Originally Posted by eric3781

The actual letter of the law states that if you are traveling at a speed that is considered "reasonable and prudent", usually given the speed of the 85th percentile of traffic, under favorable traffic conditions and clear weather, then you are within the limits of the law. In other words, if it is a clear day with light traffic and you and 85/100 cars are going 80mph in a 70mph "speed limit" zone, you are not breaking the law.

Texas Transportation Code - Section 545.352. Prima Facie Speed Limits
§ 545.352. PRIMA FACIE SPEED LIMITS. (a) A speed in excess of the limits established by Subsection (b) or under another provision of this subchapter is prima facie evidence that the speed is not reasonable and prudent and that the speed is unlawful.


Text of subsec. (b) as amended by Acts 1999, 76th Leg., ch. 663, § 2 and Acts 1999, 76th Leg., ch. 739, § 1 (b) Unless a special hazard exists that requires a slower speed for compliance with Section 545.351(b), the following speeds are lawful: (1) 30 miles per hour in an urban district on a street other than an alley and 15 miles per hour in an alley; (2) 70 miles per hour in daytime and 65 miles per hour in nighttime if the vehicle is a passenger car, motorcycle, passenger car or light truck towing a trailer bearing a vessel, as defined by Section 31.003, Parks and Wildlife Code, that is less than 26 feet in length, passenger car or light truck towing a trailer or semitrailer used primarily to transport a motorcycle, or passenger car or light truck towing a trailer or semitrailer designed and used primarily to transport dogs or livestock, on a highway numbered by this state or the United States outside an urban district, including a farm-to-market or ranch-to-market road; (3) 60 miles per hour in daytime and 55 miles per hour in nighttime if the vehicle is a passenger car or motorcycle on a highway that is outside an urban district and not a highway numbered by this state or the United States; (4) 60 miles per hour outside an urban district if a speed limit for the vehicle is not otherwise specified by this section; or (5) outside an urban district: (A) 60 miles per hour if the vehicle is a school bus that has passed a commercial motor vehicle inspection under Section 548.201 and is on a highway numbered by the United States or this state, including a farm-to-market road; (B) 50 miles per hour if the vehicle is a school bus that: (i) has not passed a commercial motor vehicle inspection under Section 548.201; or (ii) is traveling on a highway not numbered by the United States or this state; or (C) 60 miles per hour in daytime and 55 miles per hour in nighttime if the vehicle is a truck, other than a light truck, or if the vehicle is a truck tractor, trailer, or semitrailer, or a vehicle towing a trailer other than a trailer described by Subdivision (2), semitrailer, another motor vehicle or towable recreational vehicle. Text of subsec. (b) as amended by Acts 1999, 76th Leg., ch. 663, § 2 and Acts 1999, 76th Leg., ch. 1346, § 1 (b) Unless a special hazard exists that requires a slower speed for compliance with Section 545.351(b), the following speeds are lawful: (1) 30 miles per hour in an urban district on a street other than an alley and 15 miles per hour in an alley; (2) 70 miles per hour in daytime and 65 miles per hour in nighttime if the vehicle is on a highway numbered by this state or the United States outside an urban district, including a farm-to-market or ranch-to-market road, except as provided by Subdivision (4); (3) 60 miles per hour in daytime and 55 miles per hour in nighttime if the vehicle is on a highway that is outside an urban district and not a highway numbered by this state or the United States; (4) outside an urban district: (A) 60 miles per hour if the vehicle is a school bus that has passed a commercial motor vehicle inspection under Section 548.201 and is on a highway numbered by the United States or this state, including a farm-to-market road; (B) 50 miles per hour if the vehicle is a school bus that: (i) has not passed a commercial motor vehicle inspection under Section 548.201; or (ii) is traveling on a highway not numbered by the United States or this state; or (C) 60 miles per hour in daytime and 55 miles per hour in nighttime if: (i) the vehicle is a truck, other than a light truck, or if the vehicle is a truck tractor, trailer, or semitrailer; and (ii) the vehicle is on a farm-to-market or ranch-to-market road; (5) on a beach, 15 miles per hour; or (6) on a county road adjacent to a public beach, 15 miles per hour, if declared by the commissioners court of the county. (c) The speed limits for a bus or other vehicle engaged in the business of transporting passengers for compensation or hire, for a commercial vehicle used as a highway post office vehicle for highway post office service in the transportation of United States mail, for a light truck, and for a school activity bus are the same as required for a passenger car at the same time and location. (d) In this section: (1) "Interstate highway" means a segment of the national system of interstate and defense highways that is: (A) located in this state; (B) officially designated by the Texas Transportation Commission; and (C) approved under Title 23, United States Code. (2) "Light truck" means a truck with a manufacturer's rated carrying capacity of not more than 2,000 pounds, including a pick-up truck, panel delivery truck, and carry-all truck. (3) "Urban district" means the territory adjacent to and including a highway, if the territory is improved with structures that are used for business, industry, or dwelling houses and are located at intervals of less than 100 feet for a distance of at least one-quarter mile on either side of the highway.

[eric3781]

Originally Posted by oceangaia

Texas Transportation Code - Section 545.352. Prima Facie Speed Limits
§ 545.352. PRIMA FACIE SPEED LIMITS. (a) A speed in excess of the limits established by Subsection (b) or under another provision of this subchapter is prima facie evidence that the speed is not reasonable and prudent and that the speed is unlawful.

Very good!

Now look up what prima facie means and get back to me.

[oceangaia]

It means the burden of proof will be on you...

[eric3781]

Originally Posted by oceangaia

It means the burden of proof will be on you...

My lawyer and I are ready for the challenge.

[oceangaia]

Fine, just as long as people know that, when you are telling them the posted speed limit means nothing if 85% are going faster, they are going to have to do a bit more than just whine to the judge "but everybody was going faster".