"Stand your ground" OK now that it's a Black shooter? (Mart: associations, population)

[tstone]

Originally Posted by Kuykendall

I was watching Fox 26 this week and they gave a statistic that Black people make up 13% of the population in Harris County but make up 50% of the population in county jails. When I see this kind of statistic I equate it to pittbulls (and hopefully not to be taken as any kind of insult); we might see two different breeds of dogs in the same situation walking down the street at different times but when one of them is a pitbull we automatically without thinking put more of our awareness or attention on that breed. It is innate in us from what we have seen on the news even though we know not all pittbulls are inherently mischievous. These are all self-fulfilling phrophecys and are not issues that you can just point a finger at someone and yell at them to stop doing.

So it's evolutionary??

[GTRdad]

Originally Posted by Kuykendall

What your saying seems simple enough coming from someone who has had options since inception and has never had to climb out of a hole generations in the making. "Get yourself out of poverty" and "stay away from your stupid past and stupid relatives" doesn't fall easy on the ears of a 15 year old who has grown up around all of the above and doesn't see any other options.

The answer is not yelling "do better" but more of creating options and building local economies. These kids have no support system informing them how important it is to graduate high school because most of the mothers never did and can't place value on education. The fathers are only there in some instances so it's mainly kids left to fend for themselves while moms at work or doing whatever mom does. Something needs to happen from the outside in conjunction with those who still see a future on the inside. Not everyone in poverty ridden areas want to or will change but something needs to be done to help the ones who do. And this goes for any race in any area.

I can tell youre a good person.
I could be that 15 year old, but could have been in a worse situation. just to give you an idea, there was 2 years in my life without a working TV in our house. very tough especially in the teens during the MTV years (i was in the punk-tribe in the 80s) . Well that definitely wont paint a good picture of how bad it was, but we were poorer compared to welfare recepients. Schooling wasnt free (no public school option), also getting there wasnt free, you have to take public transportation. Anyway, I had a very strict dad (on curfew, grades) he was a drunk, gambler, womanizer etc , I wished I was luckier to not have a dad at all. He never finished college so all he wanted was for us to "do better". He did talk to me alot about his failures but at a young person I could already see what it was like out there. People can be champions, spectators or victims. Well, all 8 siblings did do waaay better than him, in just a few years out of college. Yes 8. We came out blazing . All my childhood friends who we're pampered and spoiled didnt get far, some took a longer time to get anywhere.

Originally Posted by Kuykendall

I was watching Fox 26 this week and they gave a statistic that Black people make up 13% of the population in Harris County but make up 50% of the population in county jails. When I see this kind of statistic I equate it to pittbulls (and hopefully not to be taken as any kind of insult); we might see two different breeds of dogs in the same situation walking down the street at different times but when one of them is a pitbull we automatically without thinking put more of our awareness or attention on that breed. It is innate in us from what we have seen on the news even though we know not all pittbulls are inherently mischievous. These are all self-fulfilling phrophecys and are not issues that you can just point a finger at someone and yell at them to stop doing.

I dont like pitbull because all dogs can and will do something unexpected. The bigger the dog, the bigger the damage, sometimes deadly. What I hate the most is to me they are like pet pythons. Its an ego thing to own one, that could get people hurt.
Big dogs on a leash. Something's going to go wrong eventually. Could that happen to people? sure.

[stoneclaw]

Originally Posted by Kuykendall

The gas station shooting...

I don't understand. Didn't a lot of people protest for the law to be repealed?

Once she took her weapon out of the trunk she didn't "stand her ground" she advanced towards him and pretty much got in his face. She then fired a warning shot that struck the subject and wondered why he hit her?

I do believe that she had the right to pull out a weapon and use it because she felt threatened - especially if he had a knife in his hand. But if she felt so threatened about the knife then why did she get so close to him with the gun?

Did you look at the video? That man was big and was approaching her before she shot him. Plus he had been harrassing her before that. I don't think she had to kill him though, she could have just shot him in the leg or something, but it was justifiable.

[stoneclaw]

Originally Posted by War Beagle

It's not illegal to follow someone or ask what they are doing. Trayvon could have told ZImmerman to go fly a kite. Instead he decided to beat the crap out of Zimmerman. One thing that has stood out during the Martin case is that a large portion of the black population seems to think it is acceptable to beat the crap out of someone for following or for saying something they don't like. Perhaps that is one reason a disproportionate number of blacks are in prison.

Anyway, liberals don't like stand your ground because it gets in the way of redistribution of income via crime.

None of us know the whole story. We are all only assuming that he just up and decided to beat the crap out of him. We don't know what was said or if there what other small events could have led up to that.

Your entire comment comes across as bigoted ignorance to me. Still no reason to take someone's life.

[PedroMartinez]

Originally Posted by stoneclaw

None of us know the whole story. We are all only assuming that he just up and decided to beat the crap out of him. We don't know what was said or if there what other small events could have led up to that.

Your comment comes across at bigoted ignorance to me. Still no reason to take someone's life.

It's not all assumption.

Here is some evidence we know:
Martin had bruised knuckles.
Martin had no other injuries than the bruised knuckles and gunshot wound.
Zimmerman had a broken nose.
Zimmerman had cuts to the back of his head.
Zimmerman had mud and grass stains on the back of his clothes.
Zimmerman had no bruising on his knuckles.
The only witness who could give any kind of accurate description of the fight put Martin on top of Zimmerman doing a ground and pound MMA style - the witness' words.
The forensics expert testified that the evidence was consistent with Zimmerman's account.

I'm sorry, but that adds up to Martin assaulting Zimmerman.

[stoneclaw]

Originally Posted by PedroMartinez

It's not all assumption.

Here is some evidence we know:
Martin had bruised knuckles.
Martin had no other injuries than the bruised knuckles and gunshot wound.
Zimmerman had a broken nose.
Zimmerman had cuts to the back of his head.
Zimmerman had mud and grass stains on the back of his clothes.
Zimmerman had no bruising on his knuckles.
The only witness who could give any kind of accurate description of the fight put Martin on top of Zimmerman doing a ground and pound MMA style - the witness' words.
The forensics expert testified that the evidence was consistent with Zimmerman's account.

I'm sorry, but that adds up to Martin assaulting Zimmerman.

Whatever.

I'm just on the side of the fence that supported that the kid did not need to die. The fact remains that if Zimmerman hadn't accosted him in the first place, there would be no need for Martin to defend and in turn lose his life.

[txdemo]

Originally Posted by stoneclaw

Whatever.

I'm just on the side of the fence that supported that the kid did not need to die. The fact remains that if Zimmerman hadn't accosted him in the first place, there would be no need for Martin to defend and in turn lose his life.

Ditto.

[madrone2k]

Disclaimer: I just stumbled onto this thread and briefly skimmed through the comments.

One thing that struck me while watching the video (and which I don't think anyone has mentioned here) is the 2nd guy walking back and forth in front of the camera while the 1st guy and the lady in question are interacting.

My gut (emotional) interpretation is that the 2nd guy would seem to be in cahoots with the 1st guy who is accosting the lady. The reason for my interpretation comes from analyzing a situation when I was mugged with a gun in my face years ago. I.e., 1 or 2 guys carry out the actual assault, while another guy (maybe the guy who drives the get-away car) observes and assists if his crook buddies need help.

To repeat, I'm not making any hasty judgements. I just though it was interesting that apparently no one seemed to take notice of something that, to me, might indicate that the woman was the victim of an assault carried out by more than one person.

[Nairobi]

Originally Posted by War Beagle

It's not illegal to follow someone or ask what they are doing. Trayvon could have told ZImmerman to go fly a kite. Instead he decided to beat the crap out of Zimmerman. One thing that has stood out during the Martin case is that a large portion of the black population seems to think it is acceptable to beat the crap out of someone for following or for saying something they don't like. Perhaps that is one reason a disproportionate number of blacks are in prison.

Anyway, liberals don't like stand your ground because it gets in the way of redistribution of income via crime.

Which is funny because I've seen about as many whites standing up for Trayvon as I've seen blacks. Can't say I'm surprised you decided to use this as a reason to attack a race of people.

[Dopo]

Originally Posted by PedroMartinez

BS!!!!

Zimmerman was NOT chasing him down with a gun. Zimmerman was following Martin to keep an eye on him until the police arrived and had a gun for his protection.

Are you saying the gun magically appeared to saved Zimmerman from Trayvon?