C'mon Lance Berkman - What's this drivel coming from your mouth? (Houston: price, vs.)

[testmo]

Also - we dont need to pass HERO because a federal law already exists but prop 6 puts into state constitution the right to hunt and fish? Oh texas

Hunting will be the preferred method of conservation and allowed by all traditional methods? Jesus. ...

[PinkLadyK]

Originally Posted by PedroMartinez

Do you lock your car doors or your home? If so, why?

You do so to make it a little more difficult, to make it more apparent and to reduce the risk of opportunity crimes. The same goes for HERO. It's like leaving the doors unlocked. It won't stop it, but it will most likely reduce crimes of opportunity.

Keeping HERO will change nothing while most likely enabling sexual predators.

I'm not sure that this is creating an opportunity. Was anyone really monitoring the bathroom entrances before HERO?

I think a male-looking person walking into a women's restroom would draw attention (HERO or not), and therefore would have to hide/sneak to do scope out a potential place to attack. I don't think by having HERO in place, predatory men are going to just walk in and evaluate women's stalls in plain sight. I think they will do it the way they've been doing it.

Now if the male is wearing a dress and make-up, well you've already said you have no issue with him/her being in the women's bathroom.

So who are you trying to keep out, and why do you think HERO is helping them get in?

[Mandres]

Originally Posted by PedroMartinez

Keeping HERO will change nothing while most likely enabling sexual predators.

The fight over this ordinance has nothing to do with sexual predators - that's just propaganda from the opposition. The real fight is about the legal remedies available to people who feel they've been discriminated against, and the desire of the business community to limit their exposure to lawsuits, which are significantly easier to bring with this statute in place.

It goes deeper than that though, and that's why we're seeing hundreds of thousands of PAC dollars being thrown at this. Obviously the pastors and other conservative groups don't support an expansion of local bureaucracy to enforce federal rules that they fundamentally disagree with - they'll argue that the government has no authority to tell business owners who they can't or must transact with. It's an argument that goes back to well before the civil rights movement - the rights of the business owner to manage his/her affairs vs. the rights of all citizens to have access to the services that business provides. That issue is settled in law, but in practice there has been and will continue to be a tremendous amount of pushback.

[Houston321]

It's also a nice distraction from the real issues....our deficit as a city, road repair, road expansion, public transit...etc.

[testmo]

Props to deal with those have been passed or killed in the past. Churches didnt care enough about them to make a stink apparently

[Yn0hTnA]

Originally Posted by PedroMartinez

You need to let go of you emotional commitment to this.

Two things:
1. HERO is only about Houston businesses.
2. HERO is pretty much just a feel good ordinance that will have a negligible, at best, affect on transgenders while preventing Houston businesses from keeping perverted straight non-transgender men from entering the women's restroom.

If people would quit breaking their arms trying to pat themselves on the back for being so progressive, they'd realize what a ridiculous ordinance this is.

Well, in this case, you are going to have to find statistical evidence depicting more frequent occurrences of such sexual predator cases post-enactment of an ERO vs pre-enactment, in the various US cities that have such an ordinance. HERO was operating for some time before it was suspended; find statistical evidence that such sex crimes occurred at an increased rate during time vs before the ordinance. Good luck.

[PedroMartinez]

Originally Posted by PinkLadyK

Was anyone really monitoring the bathroom entrances before HERO?

Businesses would call the police or question men who entered the women's restroom. With HERO they can't unless they want to expose themselves to potential sanctions from the city.

From this May this year:

Police: Man peeped on women in Walmart bathroom then fought with employees - The Morning Call

An Allentown man peeped at women in a Walmart bathroom Saturday night and then fought with employees and Whitehall Township police officers when he was caught, according to court records.

If they had an ordinance like HERO, the violent pervert could have just said he identified as a woman and was checking the next stall for toilet paper. Businesses are going to essentially ignore such people for fear of damages if they question him or call the police.

There are tons of stories like this if you just do a quick Google search.

Originally Posted by PinkLadyK

So who are you trying to keep out, and why do you think HERO is helping them get in?

I'm trying to keep the sexual predators out.

If you choose to ignore the FACT that sexual predators target restrooms, I guess we'll never agree on the issue.

I still find it very odd that people choose to forsake the safety of woman in order to keep transgender from POTENTIALLY being a little embarrassed if a business owner asks them why they are going into a particular restroom.

Reducing the risk of a tiny part of the population from possibly being a little uncomfortable versus the safety of women should be a no-brainer, but apparently some people would prefer to add risk in order to show how progressive they are.

[PedroMartinez]

Originally Posted by Yn0hTnA

Well, in this case, you are going to have to find statistical evidence depicting more frequent occurrences of such sexual predator cases post-enactment of an ERO vs pre-enactment, in the various US cities that have such an ordinance. HERO was operating for some time before it was suspended; find statistical evidence that such sex crimes occurred at an increased rate during time vs before the ordinance. Good luck.

That's kind of like asking to prove an unlocked car wouldn't have been broken into if it had been locked. There is really no way of knowing. However, I'll continue locking my car to be on the safe side.

Here is a question for you. Let's say a rape does occur and it is discovered that the man gained access by claiming to be transgender, would you still say it was a good idea?

How many rapes would you be willing to trade?

[testmo]

What about trans men? The whole bathroom argument is about protecting ladies (obviously women need our votes for this...) so the argument is specifically prejudiced against female transgender folks

[PedroMartinez]

Originally Posted by testmo

What about trans men? The whole bathroom argument is about protecting ladies (obviously women need our votes for this...) so the argument is specifically prejudiced against female transgender folks

My argument is about how HERO impacts how businesses may possibly interact with male sexual predators.