United approved for Houston-to-Havana flights

[ParaguaneroSwag]

Originally Posted by Cowboys fan in Houston

It doesn't work that way. Cuba is not an open skies market and it probably never will be. That means, United has to ask for frequencies. United is only flying it weekly because thats all it asked for. United cannot just increase it at will. All the frequencies are claimed. Another carrier would have to give up their own frequencies or United would have to reduce Newark-Havana to give Houston-Havana frequencies which won't happen.

Bottom line is that it won't grow to daily because it can't grow to daily. All frequencies are spoken for.

United did ask for frequencies, and it did get approved for them. It did grow to daily. And you were wrong. And I was right. Just trolling here.

[Cowboys fan in Houston]

Originally Posted by ParaguaneroSwag

United did ask for frequencies, and it did get approved for them. It did grow to daily. And you were wrong. And I was right. Just trolling here.

If you are going to troll, at least have the slightest clue of what youre talking about.

The US-Cuba market has a set number of frequencies that DID NOT grow in number.

In the initial phase of the opening of Cuba, everyone rushed in thinking they could make something out of it. The sad truth is, every market outside of Florida struggled. As a result you had many carriers vacating frequencies. In these markets, Frontier, Spirit, and Delta's JFK-HAV were cancelled and the frequencies turned back in.

Once a certain number of frequencies to Cuba were turned in, the DOT launched proceedings to re-allocate these frequencies to other carriers that wanted them. Below was the timeline for that event:

Applications for Redistribution of Frequencies: 9-1-2017
Answers to Petitions: 9-7-2017
Final Revised Applications Due: 9-12-17
Objections and Answers Due: 9-16-17
Replies to Answers: 9-26-17

The DOT docket number was 2017-8-26

The applications for the unused frequencies were as follows:

AA wanted 16 additional frequencies from Miami arguing that Miami was by far the largest and most successful market to Cuba.
Jetblue wanted 6x weekly from Fort Lauderdale, a weekly flight from Boston and daily flights from Tampa and Newark.
Delta wanted a daily flight from Fort Lauderdale which was later revised to Miami
United wanted permission to decrease the size of the aircraft from Houston and increase the service to daily flights.

Then the DOT took their time and made the decision last week:

AA got a daily award to Miami
Delta got a daily award to Miami
JetBlue got 6 weekly flights from Fort Lauderdale and a Saturday only flight from Boston
Southwest got a daily award to Fort Lauderdale
United got 6 weekly flights from Houston and permission to decrease the size of the aircraft to a regional jet.

So no, United simply cannot add frequencies at will to a market that does not have open skies. Thats what I said in the first place and its still the same truth. United was only able to add more service because other carriers vacated their frequencies and United could apply for them.

I was not wrong, youre just uneducated on Open Skies, restrictive markets, and how the DOT works.

[Cowboys fan in Houston]

Originally Posted by ParaguaneroSwag

The flight began. Now Houston is only missing direct flights to 3 countries in Latin America: Paraguay, Uruguay, and Bolivia. Only Miami has passed this milestone, flying to Bolivia and Uruguay, but still missing Paraguay.

American tried Paraguay but the market wasnt big enough for it to work.

Uruguay is a very small market and even AA has trouble making it work from Miami.

The Bolivian market is overwhelmingly in two cities only: Miami and Washington DC.

Id love to see any of them in Houston but it wouldnt make any sense.

[ParaguaneroSwag]

Originally Posted by Cowboys fan in Houston

If you are going to troll, at least have the slightest clue of what youre talking about.

The US-Cuba market has a set number of frequencies that DID NOT grow in number.

In the initial phase of the opening of Cuba, everyone rushed in thinking they could make something out of it. The sad truth is, every market outside of Florida struggled. As a result you had many carriers vacating frequencies. In these markets, Frontier, Spirit, and Delta's JFK-HAV were cancelled and the frequencies turned back in.

Once a certain number of frequencies to Cuba were turned in, the DOT launched proceedings to re-allocate these frequencies to other carriers that wanted them. Below was the timeline for that event:

Applications for Redistribution of Frequencies: 9-1-2017
Answers to Petitions: 9-7-2017
Final Revised Applications Due: 9-12-17
Objections and Answers Due: 9-16-17
Replies to Answers: 9-26-17

The DOT docket number was 2017-8-26

The applications for the unused frequencies were as follows:

AA wanted 16 additional frequencies from Miami arguing that Miami was by far the largest and most successful market to Cuba.
Jetblue wanted 6x weekly from Fort Lauderdale, a weekly flight from Boston and daily flights from Tampa and Newark.
Delta wanted a daily flight from Fort Lauderdale which was later revised to Miami
United wanted permission to decrease the size of the aircraft from Houston and increase the service to daily flights.

Then the DOT took their time and made the decision last week:

AA got a daily award to Miami
Delta got a daily award to Miami
JetBlue got 6 weekly flights from Fort Lauderdale and a Saturday only flight from Boston
Southwest got a daily award to Fort Lauderdale
United got 6 weekly flights from Houston and permission to decrease the size of the aircraft to a regional jet.

So no, United simply cannot add frequencies at will to a market that does not have open skies. Thats what I said in the first place and its still the same truth. United was only able to add more service because other carriers vacated their frequencies and United could apply for them.

I was not wrong, youre just uneducated on Open Skies, restrictive markets, and how the DOT works.

I did not critique on why Houston got permission to fly daily. I critiqued on your words exactly “Bottom line is that it won't grow to daily because it can't grow to daily. All frequencies are spoken for.”. It’s not that I’m uneducated on open skies agreement. It’s that you can’t stand being wrong so you ignore what you said word for word and give a long list about something that doesn’t change what you said. Using your quotes about “It ain’t grow to daily” was a false statement therefore you were wrong unless the English language changed in the matter of time from then to now.

[lipbalm]

I thought Trump administration put the kabosh on this route?

If it’s still available what are the requirements to travel to Cuba ? I know there are some restrictions to US citizens but I have a second passport.

[Cowboys fan in Houston]

Originally Posted by ParaguaneroSwag

I did not critique on why Houston got permission to fly daily. I critiqued on your words exactly “Bottom line is that it won't grow to daily because it can't grow to daily. All frequencies are spoken for.”. It’s not that I’m uneducated on open skies agreement. It’s that you can’t stand being wrong so you ignore what you said word for word and give a long list about something that doesn’t change what you said. Using your quotes about “It ain’t grow to daily” was a false statement therefore you were wrong unless the English language changed in the matter of time from then to now.

Lets go back to the posts:

I said:

"It doesn't work that way. Cuba is not an open skies market and it probably never will be. That means, United has to ask for frequencies. United is only flying it weekly because thats all it asked for. United cannot just increase it at will. All the frequencies are claimed. Another carrier would have to give up their own frequencies or United would have to reduce Newark-Havana to give Houston-Havana frequencies which won't happen.

Bottom line is that it won't grow to daily because it can't grow to daily. All frequencies are spoken for."

The you said:

"You realize the DOT isn't going to keep the same amount of frequencies allowed the same for the rest of time. The DOT is subject to increase (and possibly even decrease) frequencies, in which United could pick up for Houston or use for another city."

Look at that last like I said. See the phrase "all frequencies are spoken for"? I said it wont go daily because it cant go daily and then immediately said why: "all frequencies are spoken for". Normal people would have been able to tell that the two sentences were together, but I guess if reading comprehension isnt present, then I can see where you would have gotten confused.

The DOT didnt increase frequencies as you suggested and they could not unilaterally do that any way. This is a bi-lateral agreement.

So nope. Still not wrong.