Should The Woodlands Incorporate? (Houston, Sugar Land: how much, deed, taxes)

[Double L]

Do you believe The Woodlands should incorporate in the coming years? It is a really big political discussion in the area right now and I wanted to hear your thoughts. Here are my thoughts on the issue, which I posted on my Facebook.

One of the best features of The Woodlands, is that it was not planned by any government. It was a master planned community. That means it wasn’t built by regulation but instead, innovation.

The politics going on in the area has many people debating the size of the tax rate that would be incurred. Whether it be 70%, 50% or other rates. Perhaps we should take a step back, look at it, use common sense and acknowledge that no matter the rate, our taxes will go up no matter what if we incorporate. Why is that? Because The Woodlands Township would take over services currently being run by the county. That will increase taxes by a large amount, with a small amount of benefit. We will pay more for our roads and police; however, the efficiency of these services would not improve. Instead of looking at the size of the tax increase, let’s ask ourselves, is it worth higher taxes?

The issue should not be how much the taxes go up, but do we benefit significantly if we do allow those taxes to go up? I find the answer to be no. It would be higher taxes with little benefit to show for it. Let’s get away with this more conservative form of government for as long as we possibly can.

[ftbend06]

I thought there was already a plan in place to do this. Also I'm not sure what is meant by rates of 50 and 70%? It would probably be more like $0.50 per $100 of valuation, or perhaps even much lower like $0.20 or something.

I don't know a lot about the Woodlands, but I know incorporation is generally not considered less conservative. It is probably more conservative. Things get decided more at the local level versus County, etc.

Taxes probably would not go up if TW has MUDs (not sure if they do?). The MUDs would probably get dissolved and your City tax rate would be lower than the MUD rate if it's anything like Sugar Land, for example.

Yes TW was a private development with deed restrictions. The problem with that is enforcement of that type of restriction starts to vary more over a long period of time. If you had zoning it is generally a better safeguard long-term. Just food for thought.

Also I just did some quick research and the township already has a property tax. If you consider that and the MUD, which would likely both be replaced by City, my guess is the overall tax rate would go down from annexation in most if not all cases.

[Texascrude]

If it ain't broken, don't try and fix it.

The Woodlands is arguably the most successful 'city' in the entire Houston area. Why mess with it?

[Dopo]

Originally Posted by Double L

One of the best features of The Woodlands, is that it was not planned by any government. It was a master planned community. That means it wasn’t built by regulation but instead, innovation.

Same people that claim this,
want the "government" to stop any expansion of Woodlands Parkway to Magnolia

Don't like government messing with their community,
but then want government to stop what other community just West of them wants to do

[Double L]

Originally Posted by ftbend06

I thought there was already a plan in place to do this. Also I'm not sure what is meant by rates of 50 and 70%? It would probably be more like $0.50 per $100 of valuation, or perhaps even much lower like $0.20 or something.

I don't know a lot about the Woodlands, but I know incorporation is generally not considered less conservative. It is probably more conservative. Things get decided more at the local level versus County, etc.

Taxes probably would not go up if TW has MUDs (not sure if they do?). The MUDs would probably get dissolved and your City tax rate would be lower than the MUD rate if it's anything like Sugar Land, for example.

Yes TW was a private development with deed restrictions. The problem with that is enforcement of that type of restriction starts to vary more over a long period of time. If you had zoning it is generally a better safeguard long-term. Just food for thought.

Also I just did some quick research and the township already has a property tax. If you consider that and the MUD, which would likely both be replaced by City, my guess is the overall tax rate would go down from annexation in most if not all cases.

There was a huge political battle over incorporation recently. A group called Woodlands Concerned taxpayers said that incorporation would raise taxes 70%. Based on a 2012 Houston Chronicle article. Then Gordy Bunch said it would raise taxes 50% and the 70% number was a lie.

[Double L]

Originally Posted by Dopo

Same people that claim this,
want the "government" to stop any expansion of Woodlands Parkway to Magnolia

Don't like government messing with their community,
but then want government to stop what other community just West of them wants to do

For the record, I am for the Woodlands Parkway Extension, although I do believe the voters voted it down so they should take it off the major thoroughfare plan.

[Double L]

Originally Posted by ftbend06

I thought there was already a plan in place to do this. Also I'm not sure what is meant by rates of 50 and 70%? It would probably be more like $0.50 per $100 of valuation, or perhaps even much lower like $0.20 or something.

I don't know a lot about the Woodlands, but I know incorporation is generally not considered less conservative. It is probably more conservative. Things get decided more at the local level versus County, etc.

Taxes probably would not go up if TW has MUDs (not sure if they do?). The MUDs would probably get dissolved and your City tax rate would be lower than the MUD rate if it's anything like Sugar Land, for example.

Yes TW was a private development with deed restrictions. The problem with that is enforcement of that type of restriction starts to vary more over a long period of time. If you had zoning it is generally a better safeguard long-term. Just food for thought.

Also I just did some quick research and the township already has a property tax. If you consider that and the MUD, which would likely both be replaced by City, my guess is the overall tax rate would go down from annexation in most if not all cases.

Well the mud isn't the only thing they will take over. They will also get their own police department, which will operate alongside with the counties sheriffs office. Plus, the county has always been running the roads for The Woodlands. If we have two police departments and both city and county money going into roads, you've got a huge tax increase that is totally unnecessary.

[Jack Lance]

Originally Posted by Double L

Well the mud isn't the only thing they will take over. They will also get their own police department, which will operate alongside with the counties sheriffs office. Plus, the county has always been running the roads for The Woodlands. If we have two police departments and both city and county money going into roads, you've got a huge tax increase that is totally unnecessary.

Incorporation worked pretty well for Bellaire, West U and the Memorial villages, also many of the municipalities in the DFW area. If you want to maintain The Woodlands character pretty much as is I think you'll have to bite the bullet and accept the higher tax burden. If you want to stay unincorporated then live with the possibility that the Woodlands will become the next Spring or develop as the 1960 area has.

Also consider that incorporation will give you the power of annexation and perhaps the Woodlands could gobble up Springwoods Village and significantly increase your tax base and help keep individual tax obligations lower than projected.

[Double L]

Well I respect your opinion but here's mine.

The Woodlands has already done pretty well with planning and that is because they have a design review board. If we incorporate we run the risk of destroying that system and replacing it with something less effective.

I think the tipping point for me on Woodlands incorporation would be if the county started doing a bad job with police, or roads or etc.

[ftbend06]

Originally Posted by Double L

Well the mud isn't the only thing they will take over. They will also get their own police department, which will operate alongside with the counties sheriffs office. Plus, the county has always been running the roads for The Woodlands. If we have two police departments and both city and county money going into roads, you've got a huge tax increase that is totally unnecessary.

I respect your opinion, but still don't see where you're getting your huge tax increase from. If it's like other areas I'm familiar with, yes, you would have a City tax, but your MUD and "Township" tax would go away and the City tax is likely to be less than those 2 combined. At least that is what I've seen before. Have you seen the Township tax? I'm assuming that's like a management district that would be dissolved and replaced by the City. The biggest incentive for me to do that would be code enforcement and things like that. Yes TW has been effective thus far, but deed restrictions can lose their power over time.

It's your choice if you live there and are ok with it though. I'm just telling you what I've seen. I suppose it does not make a difference if you continue to have a MUD and a management district versus incorporating into one entity/City that would do both their jobs.