I'm done with the Texans (Houston, Mart: 2013, unemployed, land)

[case44]

As a Houston Texans fan and a fan of Houston sports, I'm embarrassed. As good of a team as the Texans can be, this shameful display during the National Anthem is absolutely and unquestionably unacceptable. It's a big distraction. Even worse, it's a poor example for impressionable kids. Kudos to owner Bob McNair just for simply standing up for America, even though his choice of words were a little rough. I like pro football as much as anyone, but I couldn't care less about personal grievances of players. It's bad enough to even allow politics into something where they really shouldn't be.

Players, it's one thing to hate police officers and law-abiding citizens or whatever else you have on your shoulder, but please don't use the National Anthem and Old Glory as a target for your hate and hate-mongering and whatever else you might be feeling. These athletes are doing nothing to help themselves, and, in the process, are hurting the NFL and alienating many fans. They must come to grips with that. In the meantime, they need to get off their rear ends, face the flag, and honor America!!!! Period!!!!! Forget your grievances!!!

At least, we have the Astros to provide a nice distraction from the hot mess on Kirby. It's not just the Texans, but the entire NFL, that needs some serious straightening out.

[Texascrude]

Originally Posted by PedroMartinez

As of today, of the five friends I've spoken to, all five are done with the Texans and the NFL.

That says more about your peer group than it does about the issue being discussed.

Anyone who doesn't think the system unfairly penalizes poor people and minorities (and especially the overlap between the two groups) either is willfully ignoring the facts or is just living under a rock. There are countless studies that prove this out. The fact that police oppression happens to white people too shouldn't be a rebuttal to the BLM movement -- it should outrage white folks too. BLM doesn't have to march against every injustice any more than I have to march against lung cancer just because I'm also marching against breast cancer -- we all pick and choose our issues of interest, and choosing one does not mean you aren't against others.

What McNair said may have been nothing more than a slip of the tongue, but the fact that he'd use that phrase to begin with has issues. Inmates running the asylum (even if that is what he meant to say) is NOT an appropriate phrase when speaking about the people you work with, unless you are either comparing them to crazy people or to inmates. I'm not black, but I'd be offended if my boss ever referred to me in that context -- at the very least it means you opinion has no value to the organization.

[jaycich]

Work isn't the place politics, must companies that I've worked for don't allow it.

[Texascrude]

Originally Posted by case44

As a Houston Texans fan and a fan of Houston sports, I'm embarrassed. As good of a team as the Texans can be, this shameful display during the National Anthem is absolutely and unquestionably unacceptable. It's a big distraction. Even worse, it's a poor example for impressionable kids. Kudos to owner Bob McNair just for simply standing up for America, even though his choice of words were a little rough. I like pro football as much as anyone, but I couldn't care less about personal grievances of players. It's bad enough to even allow politics into something where they really shouldn't be.

Players, it's one thing to hate police officers and law-abiding citizens or whatever else you have on your shoulder, but please don't use the National Anthem and Old Glory as a target for your hate and hate-mongering and whatever else you might be feeling. These athletes are doing nothing to help themselves, and, in the process, are hurting the NFL and alienating many fans. They must come to grips with that. In the meantime, they need to get off their rear ends, face the flag, and honor America!!!! Period!!!!! Forget your grievances!!!

At least, we have the Astros to provide a nice distraction from the hot mess on Kirby. It's not just the Texans, but the entire NFL, that needs some serious straightening out.

Forcing someone to stand for the flag is far more disrespectful to what it stands for than someone kneeling before it.

[PedroMartinez]

Originally Posted by Texascrude

Forcing someone to stand for the flag is far more disrespectful to what it stands for than someone kneeling before it.

I don't feel they should be forced.

I'm happy they let me know they think America sucks.

It allows me to say they suck by not supporting their spoiled backsides.

[WRM20]

Originally Posted by rigas

And yet they are only a tiny % in comparison to black on black shooting/crime.
Where’s the “outrage” and protest for that?

Once again, apparently black lives only mater when it’s a white person doing harm to a black person, but apparently they’re not worth protesting for when it’s a black person doing the harm..

There's not a lot government can do to prevent criminals from hurting or killing others. Government can train police to actually follow the law, and not deprive people of their civil rights by killing them without cause. Police believe that their number one job is to go home at the end of the shift, and some of them believe that means it's OK to kill anyone they perceive as a threat. We pay police to take risks. If they aren't willing to take those risks, we need to hire different police. Sometimes, police need to realize that it would be better to just step back and let the suspect settle down, much like dealing with a child throwing a tantrum.

Originally Posted by RedOrDead_YNWA

Believing the protest is only about the anthem is willfully ignorant.

Like I said, I am not trying to change your mind, its pretty clear you've got it made it up and will not be moved. But I also won't let the facts get lost in the discussion.

The protest isn't just about the anthem, it is about the complicity of the United States in the systemic issues that permeate police departments all over the country. It is a deeply ingrained generations long issue that speaks to the core of America, you can't separate the anthem from America just like you can't separate this issue from America.

It's not just killing unarmed people. Minorities get stopped by police in far greater numbers than whites, often for no reason at all. When NYPD was doing their "stop and frisk" actions, they stopped something like 600,000 men one year. less than 15% or so were arrested, and that was for mostly trivial stuff. If I was put against a wall, or on the ground, several times a month for no reason, I would be pissed too.

[RedOrDead_YNWA]

Originally Posted by jerbear30

I don't think you're going to reconsider, Pedro, but I can tell you from my life experience that this country has a long way to go before it's fair, or before it's honored the social contract for all its citizens. Maybe you've not seen the kind of racism I have, though as a fellow white man, I doubt it. My guess is that you've seen plenty of whites being racist, just like I have. Moreover, I'll bet some of those whites have been in positions of significant power. Maybe you can just bracket it and say "well, that's the departments that have problems" or "that's a few bad apples." But those men who are protesting are doing it because they feel a call to do it. They've probably seen some of the racism I've seen, too, but from the other end, as black men, where they bear the brunt of it. You can divorce those "isolated incidents" but they can't, or they refuse to because they do believe that the US is more than the sum of some abstract principle--it's how we treat each-other. They're patriots, too, brother, and they're going to fight harder for American than anyone on the other side because God himself is with them. I hope you figure that out although I think you already have and just don't want to admit it.

Solid post.

Especially the part about protesters also being patriots, that gets lost in all of the "respect the anthem or GTFO" yammering. These people are patriots too, they love this country and want to see it treat it's citizens better, it's like tough love. It's like you have family member who you love, but they have a problem with alcohol, you don't just keep passing them the Jagermiester, you take steps to help them confront and deal with the problem, even if they hate you for it while you're doing it.

Tommie Carlos and John Smith (1968 Olympics black fists on the podium dudes), 1960's racist white America frothed at the mouth because "they disrespected America" by raising their black gloved fists to stand in solidarity with the Civil Rights movement....but ignored the fact that these men went, and represented their country, and excelled.....that was tough love, you dont represent your country if you don;t love it, and what they were saying is, 'we love this country' even though millions of people in this country hate us and and hate people who look like me, and would deny us the rights we are demanding, we still love this country and ya'll need to face up to this hateful history and acknowledge the civil right of black people.

An intelligent person is able to hold both those thoughts in their head. (1) "I love my country" (2) "my country does some jacked up things that I do not support and would like to see change."

There will always be people who don't get it, don't want to get it, or get it and don't give a damn about it, particularly when race is involved. And as always, history will be the judge.

[PedroMartinez]

Originally Posted by RedOrDead_YNWA

Solid post.

Especially the part about protesters also being patriots, that gets lost in all of the "respect the anthem or GTFO" yammering. These people are patriots too, they love this country and want to see it treat it's citizens better, it's like tough love. It's like you have family member who you love, but they have a problem with alcohol, you don't just keep passing them the Jagermiester, you take steps to help them confront and deal with the problem, even if they hate you for it while you're doing it.

Tommie Carlos and John Smith (1968 Olympics black fists on the podium dudes), 1960's racist white America frothed at the mouth because "they disrespected America" by raising their black gloved fists to stand in solidarity with the Civil Rights movement....but ignored the fact that these men went, and represented their country, and excelled.....that was tough love, you dont represent your country if you don;t love it, and what they were saying is, 'we love this country' even though millions of people in this country hate us and and hate people who look like me, and would deny us the rights we are demanding, we still love this country and ya'll need to face up to this hateful history and acknowledge the civil right of black people.

An intelligent person is able to hold both those thoughts in their head. (1) "I love my country" (2) "my country does some jacked up things that I do not support and would like to see change."

There will always be people who don't get it, don't want to get it, or get it and don't give a damn about it, particularly when race is involved. And as always, history will be the judge.

Comparing what Carlos and Smith dealt with in the 60s to today is a slap in the face to the civil rights movement.

There is no comparison in the way blacks were treated then and now.

[madrone2k]

Good points. On the kneeling issue, I don't think that is the most effective way to get others to help deal with the problems we face as a society. OTOH, it has certainly brought attention to those issues ... albeit while provoking a backlash from people who are more into being offended than by recognizing the original motivation of the guys doing it.

That said -- even though I disagree with the effectiveness of their chosen mode of protest -- I am proud to live in a country in which people have the right to express themselves. Especially on important topics that may be uncomfortable for some people.

[RedOrDead_YNWA]

Originally Posted by PedroMartinez

Comparing what Carlos and Smith dealt with in the 60s to today is a slap in the face to the civil rights movement.

There is no comparison in the way blacks were treated then and now.

Says you.

The guys that actually did it, the guys that actually lived it, they support kneeling and they are proud to see it:
Olympic sprinters Tommie Smith, John Carlos support Colin Kaepernick, anthem protests

That's another thing, just because it was worse back then doesn't mean you don't speak up anymore when something still isn't right. Progress is good, but you don't stop moving forward until you reach your destination.

The treatment of black people in this country went from an "F minus" in the 60's, to a "C or C minus" nowadays (and I think I'm actually being generous here), but we have long was to go before it's even a solid B.