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Third Ward doesn’t NEED white folks. Lol. When another culture comes in, a community changes. Look at Midtown. Look at Alief.
Are you African American?
Yes, communities change. There were big fights back in the 1960s to allow this.
Just like Texas Parkway in Missouri City. Yes, for awhile it was a retail corridor catering to an AA suburban middle class. Then SH 6 developed and Texas Pkwy could no longer compete, so the retail died. A normal economic evolution. But the claim that "Texas Parkway was OURS, and it's been taken away, so the government should do something because it's wrong to have it taken away" is not a valid way to approach the situation.
I lived by Texas Parkway growing up - it had also to do with other factors as Kroger bailed out of AA communities all over the SW side. Fiesta had no issues. Same thing happened to Quail Valley also as that corridor died.
One thing about that area is it never dealt with high density development so you never had a large influx of people. But 2234 growing up was the only area for retail for miles. Wal Mart started out there, Randall’s, HEB, Kroger, etc were all present.
Highway 6 past Sienna is the modern day 2234 - not enough retail hoping people shop nearby
As for 3rd ward,
You don’t need 10000 square foot lots, just build a nice home and make it appealing for newer blood to repopulate the area. They didn’t rebuild Yates just to stay empty
I think the reason they built Yates was to satisfy older people in positions of political power who went to Yates when it was an academically better school (pre-desegregation, since the wealthy and upper middle class left after desegregation) and don't want to see the school completely done away with. It's like the mentality here with Wheatley High:
But that approach likely wouldn't sit well with Wheatley's alumni, who constitute a disproportionately large percentage of Houston's middle-aged black leadership. No, what the school needs, says Harold Dutton, is a principal who's a graduate of Wheatley, someone who can be counted on to understand that there's a Wheatley mystique that must be recovered -- even if today nearly half of the school's students are Hispanic, and the tradition that's so meaningful to Dutton doesn't necessarily speak to them or their parents.
So why Wheatley? It is as simple and complex as the one-word answer Williams gives when he's asked about the most difficult part of being Wheatley's principal: politics.
Dutton and other black politicians such as Harris County Commissioner El Franco Lee, state Representative Al Edwards and former HISD board member Wylie Henry remember when Wheatley was arguably the finest black public high school in the South, when it brimmed not just with great athletes, but with extracurricular activities, when its students excelled in speech and debate and drama and music, when students showed up at seven in the morning for an extra college-level algebra class taught by an inspiring teacher. In spite of the limitations imposed by segregation and poverty, Wheatley produced leaders, and Dutton and many other black leaders like him simply cannot accept the decline of the school that prepared them so well.
Younger people, especially those who didn't grow up in the Third Ward, may wonder why so much effort is being invested in Yates, but I understand after reading articles like this. While there are younger Third Warders today who are proud of Yates, they are far smaller in number, and their numbers are shrinking.
I'm not actually against Yates being rebuilt, though, because I'm confident the building will have a long life. It can serve as a wonderful campus for the years the school is viable, and when the school is to be done away with, the building can be sold to one of the universities.
As for the housing, some cute townhouses (much like in the Museum District area) would be perfect housing stock. However it's clear that it will be for the upper middle class, and many of them may likely be DINKs. I do think that once a large number of the desperately poor are gone from the Third Ward area, the wealthy African-American Riverside Terrace parents and their neighbors of other races can work together to reclaim the Lockhart Elementary School much like the white folk did at Harvard Elementary in the Heights. Working with these wealthy African-American parents will be key in making sure the new Third Ward has ample families, instead of having a lot of DINKs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hbcu
As for 3rd ward,
You don’t need 10000 square foot lots, just build a nice home and make it appealing for newer blood to repopulate the area. They didn’t rebuild Yates just to stay empty
I'll concede that I'll never know what it is like to fully in your shoes, and as the article I shared with you shows, black people do face discrimination from society in trying to be autonomous. It's important to shift the discussion to what can be understood by someone of any ethnic background: the real estate market.
What's kept away a lot of people with money was fear of crime and blight. The wealthy black people who live in Riverside Terrace still send their kids to private and magnet schools, while those living in West U, Bellaire, Braeswood, etc. can count on quality public schools in their own neighborhoods. Those living in West U, Bellaire, etc. can get gourmet food relatively close by, while Third Warders traditionally had to drive to get it. All the issues from Sheryll Cashin's article are in play. Now we clean up the Third Ward, kick out the OG's, give it new paint jobs, put the cops in, etc. What happens nexrt?
Now people have prime territory close to Downtown Houston, and they're willing to pay top dollar for it, and they're of all ethnic groups. Try as Coleman might, he can't artificially keep them out. Of the Third Warders who don't own their land, the landlords can just rake in the dough and kick them out. Of the Third Warders who do, a lot of money being offered for their houses is quite enticing. Gentrification in this way is inevitable. What is not inevitable is how the transition happens. Think about how the UK negotiated the handover of Hong Kong to the Chinese: they saw it as inevitable and trying to drag it out would have led to a military intervention or worse. Arranging a peaceful handover and getting a promise of autonomy for 50 years was the best Britain could do. Likewise, there will be a handover from the poor to the rich, and the rich of all colors. Our job is to get the poor the best "deal" they can get, which involves:
Maintaining cultural institutions (churches, historic sites) in the old Third Ward and banning their demolition.
Training newcomers on how to respect the culture : African-American culture and the local culture
Encouraging developers to stick to architectural styles that blend in with Riverside Terrace, all the way up to the borders with Midtown and Downtown
Moving the best examples of shotgun shacks to Sam Houston Park or other places
Arranging for new housing (of better quality than before) in Sunnyside, Hiram Clarke, etc. for poor Third Warders being forced out
Requiring METRO to maintain adequate bus routes in new housing holding displaced Third Warders
Subsidizing businesses in Sunnyside and Hiram Clarke with municipal money until the businesses are able to get up on their own
Maintaining a limited amount of low income housing in the new Third Ward, and perhaps requiring residents to have employment in Downtown Houston or the TMC or that area (so those who need the proximity to work get the slots)
Ensuring HISD retains a K-8 presence in the Third Ward as it continues to close schools or repurpose them into citywide magnet schools: BCM at Ryan should have a small neighborhood K-8 program, especially if Blackshear closes. Cullen Middle is further away but its population's becoming extremely small. I'm wondering if it might have to close. Instead of making everyone go to Navarro (former Stonewall Jackson), why not keep them at BCM Ryan?
Within say twenty years: Preparing for the Yates High School building to transition into being a University of Houston or Texas Southern University building, ensuring whichever university takes it retains the "Yates" name
Merging Yates HS with Austin HS and having it jointly named
You might like to return to the old days where the black upper class was willing to solely support just black-owned businesses and make it strong, but that was forced by segregation, and desegregation had destroyed that dynamic. They can live anywhere, and so can White, Black, Hispanic, and Asian people. It's time to accept that reality and transition the Third Ward for its handover.
Thank you for acknowledging something that you’ll never fully understand. That’s big of you.
I was with you for most of your post until some of the last part. Having a black community with thriving black businesses is no different than having a Chinatown. Third Ward can the black community’s version of Chinatown. Every thing we have is dingy and is severely lacking, whereas Asians and even Hispanics have nice areas dedicated to their cultural communities. It shouldn’t be a problem or deemed “racist” when blacks want the same thing. We are at the bottom of the barrel when it comes to every thing, bro.
Note that our Chinatowns and Vietnamese towns moved because of the whole cost issue. In Midtown and East Downtown there are faint remnants of the Vietnamese and Chinese communities, but the new Chinatown and Vietnamese community are next to each other in the Bellaire Boulevard area, straddling the Beltway. They moved because land got expensive in the center and got cheap in the suburbs.
Another note is that in newer Chinatowns, they often have businesses operating side-by-side with those of other ethnicities, and Houston Chinatown is a good example of this (as many businesses catering to Hispanics operate side-by-side). You see this too in Houston as increasing numbers of Hispanics have moved into traditional African-American neighborhoods, and likewise many African-Americans have moved to new suburban lands with no previous racial identity, living side-by-side with other ethnic groups. It's a reality of the post-desegregation environment for any and all ethnic groups.
To fit Cashin's statements and while understanding the way the newer Chinatowns developed, one can encourage one's own to concentrate ethnic businesses in an area while following post-desegregation rules on buying/selling properties.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernBoy205
Thank you for acknowledging something that you’ll never fully understand. That’s big of you.
I was with you for most of your post until some of the last part. Having a black community with thriving black businesses is no different than having a Chinatown. Third Ward can the black community’s version of Chinatown. Every thing we have is dingy and is severely lacking, whereas Asians and even Hispanics have nice areas dedicated to their cultural communities. It shouldn’t be a problem or deemed “racist” when blacks want the same thing. We are at the bottom of the barrel when it comes to every thing, bro.
Note that our Chinatowns and Vietnamese towns moved because of the whole cost issue. In Midtown and East Downtown there are faint remnants of the Vietnamese and Chinese communities, but the new Chinatown and Vietnamese community are next to each other in the Bellaire Boulevard area, straddling the Beltway. They moved because land got expensive in the center and got cheap in the suburbs.
Another note is that in newer Chinatowns, they often have businesses operating side-by-side with those of other ethnicities, and Houston Chinatown is a good example of this (as many businesses catering to Hispanics operate side-by-side). You see this too in Houston as increasing numbers of Hispanics have moved into traditional African-American neighborhoods, and likewise many African-Americans have moved to new suburban lands with no previous racial identity, living side-by-side with other ethnic groups. It's a reality of the post-desegregation environment for any and all ethnic groups.
To fit Cashin's statements and while understanding the way the newer Chinatowns developed, one can encourage one's own to concentrate ethnic businesses in an area while following post-desegregation rules on buying/selling properties.
What happens when we move into an area? White flight occurs. Schools decline. Retail declines. The overall community deteriorates. Look at the differences between Mo City and Sugar Land. People on here aren’t afraid to say that a place like Spring is declining because of the increase of African Americans. Nobody wants to be around us. On the flip side, we do have a mentality that “white is right,” and we have been conditioned to think that way. White spaces are very attractive to us. Whites see us and leave, which causes segregation that lives us in a not so good conditions. However, when we want to create something great in our historical community, then it’s destroyed or modified.
Also, you may or may not realize that you are member of the race that has more privileges than any race on this earth. You can move where you want, and the area appreciates. If you decide tomorrow that you want to move into the hood and build a Whole Foods, then you can. The world functions around your rule.
What happens when we move into an area? White flight occurs. Schools decline. Retail declines. The overall community deteriorates. Look at the differences between Mo City and Sugar Land. People on here aren’t afraid to say that a place like Spring is declining because of the increase of African Americans. Nobody wants to be around us. On the flip side, we do have a mentality that “white is right,” and we have been conditioned to think that way. White spaces are very attractive to us. Whites see us and leave, which causes segregation that lives us in a not so good conditions. However, when we want to create something great in our historical community, then it’s destroyed or modified.
Also, you may or may not realize that you are member of the race that has more privileges than any race on this earth. You can move where you want, and the area appreciates. If you decide tomorrow that you want to move into the hood and build a Whole Foods, then you can. The world functions around your rule.
Yes, youre right. Having white skin comes with privileges. White people do pretty well rule the world. White flight is also an issue in many communities.
However, thats where Houston is supposed to be different. This is a a city that prides itself on integration and diversity. I live in zip code 77035 which runs the gamut from upper middle class white, to illegal immigrants, to lower class African Americans. We all live in a short distance from each other, share supermarkets, restaurants, and parks.
You mention Missouri City and Sugar Land and yes Sugar Land has more of a prestige factor. But I know tons of people who are white and moved to/live in Missouri City and love it. Also, look at Pearland. Its a growing and sought after suburb that attracts whites and blacks equally. Look at Stafford. Its almost equal among all races. Outside of Houston you have places like Garland, Plano, and Carrollton in DFW that do the same. Its not specifically a Houston thing, but Houston is supposed to do it best. I would also argue against the idea that Spring is declining even though the schools arent that good. Spring is still a nice place to me.
I get it. Gentrification is a double edged sword. People can get pushed out of the neighborhoods when taxes become higher than they can pay. So-called liberal Austin could write a book on that issue. Those people should be protected and if they were, that would be the best case scenario. In that case they wouldnt feel pushed out. However, change is inevitable too.
In the end, I HATE self segregation. I hate it when whites do it, I hate it when blacks do it, and I hate it when my people (the Arabs) do it in places like Dearborn Michigan and other areas of Detroit. This isnt Detroit, Chicago, New York, or even Atlanta. This is Houston and were supposed to embrace integration.
Yes, youre right. Having white skin comes with privileges. White people do pretty well rule the world. White flight is also an issue in many communities.
However, thats where Houston is supposed to be different. This is a a city that prides itself on integration and diversity. I live in zip code 77035 which runs the gamut from upper middle class white, to illegal immigrants, to lower class African Americans. We all live in a short distance from each other, share supermarkets, restaurants, and parks.
You mention Missouri City and Sugar Land and yes Sugar Land has more of a prestige factor. But I know tons of people who are white and moved to/live in Missouri City and love it. Also, look at Pearland. Its a growing and sought after suburb that attracts whites and blacks equally. Look at Stafford. Its almost equal among all races. Outside of Houston you have places like Garland, Plano, and Carrollton in DFW that do the same. Its not specifically a Houston thing, but Houston is supposed to do it best. I would also argue against the idea that Spring is declining even though the schools arent that good. Spring is still a nice place to me.
I get it. Gentrification is a double edged sword. People can get pushed out of the neighborhoods when taxes become higher than they can pay. So-called liberal Austin could write a book on that issue. Those people should be protected and if they were, that would be the best case scenario. In that case they wouldnt feel pushed out. However, change is inevitable too.
In the end, I HATE self segregation. I hate it when whites do it, I hate it when blacks do it, and I hate it when my people (the Arabs) do it in places like Dearborn Michigan and other areas of Detroit. This isnt Detroit, Chicago, New York, or even Atlanta. This is Houston and were supposed to embrace integration.
You don’t get it, bro. I’m being sincere as possible.
Just because whites live in and love Mo City doesn’t mean anything. Mo City is majority black compared to Sugar Land, which is majority white and Asian (more desirable than blacks and Hispanics). The differences are night and day. Majority black areas don’t have the same things that majority white areas have. Why in the hell doesn’t PG County, the most wealthy black county in the country, have nice malls and necessities like neighboring Montgomery County? Oh yea, but areas close to DC that are gentrifying are getting nice because whites are moving in. Why isn’t DeKalb County outside of the majority white areas of Brookhaven as nice as Gwinnett County? If you don’t recognize these obvious observations, then you are part of the problem.
I can’t debate with anyone who doesn’t understand.
You don’t get it, bro. I’m being sincere as possible.
Just because whites live in and love Mo City doesn’t mean anything. Mo City is majority black compared to Sugar Land, which is majority white and Asian (more desirable than blacks and Hispanics). The differences are night and day. Majority black areas don’t have the same things that majority white areas have. Why in the hell doesn’t PG County, the most wealthy black county in the country, have nice malls and necessities like neighboring Montgomery County? Oh yea, but areas close to DC that are gentrifying are getting nice because whites are moving in. Why isn’t DeKalb County outside of the majority white areas of Brookhaven as nice as Gwinnett County? If you don’t recognize these obvious observations, then you are part of the problem.
I can’t debate with anyone who doesn’t understand.
I grew up near Mo. City and watched how businesses abandoned our areas despite no one leaving the area.
The school district did their best to destroy the prosperous high school with blatant rezoning and creating division within blacks which turned out to be wrong as some got the short end of the stick with rezoning.
Ain’t no difference between between my old community and Westbury except a higher markup for the same house. But businesses purposely don’t come even though people are there.
Cashin's article's talked about it, and I've seen examples of this in:
Southfield, Michigan (Oakland County) and Harper Woods, Michigan (Wayne County)
Matheson, Illinois
DeSoto, Texas
Prince George's County
When a large number of middle-upper class African-Americans have moved into places, often remaining White people leave, and then poor African-Americans follow. Cashin used that as evidence to warn against black separatism, interestingly enough, using how many big prominent businesses, restaurants, etc. stayed out of PG County despite its money, and how the high-growth corridors of Montgomery County and Fairfax County/NoVa are away from PG County. (I am aware the NSA is close to PG County, but that's a government employer, not big business) - In other words, she says it's evidence that society is stacked against black separatism anyway.
I've noticed, though, that the Mahatma Gandhi District in Houston (Indio-Pak-Bangladeshi area) doesn't correspond to where people of South Asian origin actually *live*. Likewise Chinatown residentially is mixed (with many Hispanics and people of other ethnic origins).
Why not the following? If African-Americans were residentially spread around but maintained a business district with common African-American cultural features, I wonder if the white flight phenomenon would be stopped dead in its tracks. There's a nice Nigerian restaurant in a town called Meadows Place, Texas. It's an ethnically mixed, cohesive, middle class suburb, but it also clearly has a slice of Nigeria in town. The Japanese in Mexico City also don't live in any particular place, but they have particular institutions in common, including a school and various clubs.
(one thing is that it becomes harder to do this the higher the percentage of AAs are in a town - you see how the school board of Tuscaloosa, Alabama separated a single high school into three to gerrymander a white majority HS http://www.theatlantic.com/features/...on-now/359813/ , or how Preston Hollow Elementary in Dallas illegally tried to have one white majority class per grade https://web.archive.org/web/20080307...w.31e7a33.html , and how HISD knew the magic formula of when white parents would pull children from a school for having too many black/Hispanic minorities https://books.google.com.sg/books?id...07-CAC&pg=PA59 , noting that social class was more important than race, so to them middle class black people are okay but a large number of low income Hispanics are not okay )
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernBoy205
What happens when we move into an area? White flight occurs. Schools decline. Retail declines. The overall community deteriorates. Look at the differences between Mo City and Sugar Land. People on here aren’t afraid to say that a place like Spring is declining because of the increase of African Americans. Nobody wants to be around us. On the flip side, we do have a mentality that “white is right,” and we have been conditioned to think that way. White spaces are very attractive to us. Whites see us and leave, which causes segregation that lives us in a not so good conditions. However, when we want to create something great in our historical community, then it’s destroyed or modified.
Also, you may or may not realize that you are member of the race that has more privileges than any race on this earth. You can move where you want, and the area appreciates. If you decide tomorrow that you want to move into the hood and build a Whole Foods, then you can. The world functions around your rule.
Last edited by Vicman; 01-17-2019 at 11:19 AM..
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