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Old 11-20-2019, 02:38 AM
 
1,219 posts, read 805,256 times
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The neighborhoods with the lowest income and most centrally located get the most vulnerability to gentrefecstion. The strongest the mix of low income and pxroximity, the more the likely to gentrificate.
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Old 11-20-2019, 07:38 AM
 
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it is true that many African-Americans have family roots longer in Houston than many of the white people, who came in the 1970s or later (from the North and Midwest) - many African-Americans who weren't from longtime families have origins in Louisiana and Mississippi (the latter because of 1920s floods in Mississippi).

However now the majority of people in Houston came from elsewhere in the 1970s or later, or were descended from such. The good ol' boys structure from the Jim Crow days is gone.

I think the issue is that among African-Americans there isn't that much of a "we" as many would think - Lenwood Johnson perceived Sheila Jackson Lee to be a betrayal to poor black people and strongly disliked establishment black politicians, and Timothy O'Brien, his big ally, was a white guy doing a PhD thesis on Lightnin Hopkins at UH (married to a Korean woman and with a biracial child).

I'm actually from inside 610 - I'm not a suburban person at all. Also note many of the people who settled the first wave of suburbs have moved on, or want to go back into the city.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JYHTOWN View Post
It will NEVER be accepted by the African-American community. We were here before you and your people. We built this city under the harsh conditions of chattel slavery, not you.

And we the PEOPLE will continue to develop organically WITH and in our neighborhoods, not be replaced in them. Our lives and our fate will not be determined by entitled white dudes drunk off this bs concept of "free market capitalism" that their slave owning ancestors were.

Houston isn't Paris. Houston is Houston. If you want to live in a European city, then go back to your ancestral homeland, live there and gentrify one of the rural villages there or something, and leave us alone. Anything else is a declaration of war.

Besides if you people are so enterprising and productive then why can't you make your suburbs and outskirts where you're already the majority into highly sought after places to live so that you can attract all of these "wealthy people" who look like you to live among you in your neighborhoods?
Its true that the original Houston townsite was built with slave labor. It was also a much smaller, less significant city back then. It wasn't until the 1900s-1910s or so that Houston began to surpass Galveston. Even in the 1950s New Orleans was a major city in the South Central US versus Houston. The major land development in the second half of the 20th century means that most of Houston was developed after the civil rights act of 1964.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JYHTOWN View Post
Yeah, I'm familiar with the Boyle Heights activist in East LA. I support them based off principle. But, I'm talking about African-Americans in Houston.

And even still their case in LA isn't as strong as ours in Houston. LA wasn't built off the chattel slave labor of Hispanics, like Houston was of African Americans. There aren't as many Mexican communities literally founded and built from the ground up by Mexican immigrants in LA as there are by the African-American freedmen in the Houston area.

The racial scars in LA with mexicans aren't anywhere near as deep as they are with AAs in Houston. The zoot suit riots can't compare to the Camp Logan riots or even the TSU riots or the Carl Hampton police execution. Though racist whites and white supremacy were the cause all of them.
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Old 11-21-2019, 04:51 AM
 
Location: Willowbrook, Houston
903 posts, read 741,002 times
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Quote:
In any case the specific group of poor African Americans should know that the "thug life" needs to eradicated entirely from their communities or the business interests will have no significant opposition in their plans.
This. I'm the first to say that if poor blacks cared more about their hoods, gentrification wouldn't be on the radar.

Quote:
Acres Homes and Third ward seem to be the most active against it.
I've said that for the longest about Acres Homes. Some of the oldest black churches, first schools for blacks, etc. originated in AH & 3rd Ward.

Quote:
Folks in the 44 naturally have always had that self-sufficient mindset. Lotta people don't know that they only officially became apart of the city in the 70s. Before that, they were a large independent unincorporated urban community of AAs built from the ground up by the forefathers and foremothers of the people living there.
Yep. There's a documentary about the history of Acres Homes that confirms this.
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Old 11-21-2019, 01:57 PM
 
37 posts, read 6,237 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicman View Post
The freedmen's town bricks absolutely need to remain; cultural heritage is very important. Even if the people living in the community change (as in become wealthier), the past needs to be preserved. The historic churches and institutions need to remain even if the surroundings are now full of wealthy people.

In regards to shotgun shacks, keep the ones in the best condition and/or send them to Sam Houston Park. The ones in poor condition might be OK to demo.

I'm a bit surprised to hear gentrification and Sunnyside/Kashmere Gardens/Trinity Gardens in the same sentence; I don't see those areas being in danger of gentrifying anytime soon.

The bricks, the shacks, the churches, and THE PEOPLE will remain. There is no cultural heritage without the people.

The people will continue to grow and improve their condition even in the face of systematic racism along with the neighborhood, while preserving and developing our culture. We aren't leaving anywhere. In fact more of the 2nd & 3rd gen black neighborhood diaspora are moving back into their parents and grandparents neighborhoods to live and invest as well as new AA arrivals attracted by the rich culture and heritage.

Your dreams of removing AAs from AA founded and built neighborhoods will never be realized.
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Old 11-21-2019, 06:04 PM
 
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Looks like quite some passionate arguments from both sides of the issue. I'll just sit this one out, and take the "wait-and-see" approach.
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Old 11-21-2019, 08:49 PM
 
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Anyone of any race has the right to move to the Third Ward and call him/herself a Third Warder. Healthy neighborhoods accept outsiders and change, just like how healthy American suburbs accept racial minorities; those that give into rapid white flight ended up being sickly (like South Park). The "Five Points" of New York, formerly immigrant, is no longer poor. Same with the Lower East Side. Life is about change.

Lower income Third Ward residents who feel the taxes are getting too high are welcome to sell, get some money, and get a nice house in the suburbs. Third Ward residents who do not own their own properties unfortunately are out of luck.

The absentee landlords may not share your vision of the Third Ward always being predominately poor, JYHTOWN. You can't control what they do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JYHTOWN View Post
The bricks, the shacks, the churches, and THE PEOPLE will remain. There is no cultural heritage without the people.

The people will continue to grow and improve their condition even in the face of systematic racism along with the neighborhood, while preserving and developing our culture. We aren't leaving anywhere. In fact more of the 2nd & 3rd gen black neighborhood diaspora are moving back into their parents and grandparents neighborhoods to live and invest as well as new AA arrivals attracted by the rich culture and heritage.

Your dreams of removing AAs from AA founded and built neighborhoods will never be realized.
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Old 11-22-2019, 01:52 AM
 
4,703 posts, read 8,478,822 times
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Addendum: Any gentrification efforts SHOULD come with pressure to improve infrastructure in the between 610-Beltway 8 communities where lower income Third Warders move to, and this means coercing city council members, METRO board members, etc. to give funding to North Forest, northern Acres Homes, Hiram Clarke, etc. even if their constituents don't like it.

I also think a limited number of public housing units should be built in the Third Ward with priority for people with jobs in Downtown/Midtown/etc.
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Old 11-22-2019, 04:36 AM
 
Location: Willowbrook, Houston
903 posts, read 741,002 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicman View Post
Anyone of any race has the right to move to the Third Ward and call him/herself a Third Warder. Healthy neighborhoods accept outsiders and change, just like how healthy American suburbs accept racial minorities; those that give into rapid white flight ended up being sickly (like South Park). The "Five Points" of New York, formerly immigrant, is no longer poor. Same with the Lower East Side. Life is about change.

Lower-income Third Ward residents who feel the taxes are getting too high are welcome to sell, get some money, and get a nice house in the suburbs. Third Ward residents who do not own their own properties, unfortunately, are out of luck.

The absentee landlords may not share your vision of the Third Ward always being predominately poor, JYHTOWN. You can't control what they do.
Those aren't true 3rd Warders if they haven't lived in the neighborhood since childhood. Houston ghettos (hoods in general) are very territorial, meaning if you haven't lived in the hood from birth, you can't call yourself a native of that hood. You can move out of the neighborhood you grew up in, but you would still be considered a native because you came up there, seen the neighborhood at its worst, etc
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Old 11-22-2019, 09:31 AM
 
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Indeed I had a teacher talk about that, how many historical African-American communities and schools are territorial; this means school mergers had potential issues if the student bodies hated one another.

Unfortunately I think territorialism will conflict with the inevitable (barring a major economic collapse): See the stats for the Greater Third Ward Super Neighborhood: https://www.houstontx.gov/planning/D..._ThirdWard.pdf - As seen here the percent of those making under 25K from 2000 to 2015 declined to 51% from 69% while over 100K increased from 2% to 10% (it's possible this does not take into account inflation). The median income went from $14,493 to $40,523.

The African-American percentage went from 79 to 67, while the Hispanic went from 10 to 14 and non-Hispanic white from 7 to 13. Note this does not include Riverside Terrace as it's in another super neighborhood.

The transition will be much smoother if a more flexible mindset is adopted regarding who is "from" there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcresHomes44 View Post
Those aren't true 3rd Warders if they haven't lived in the neighborhood since childhood. Houston ghettos (hoods in general) are very territorial, meaning if you haven't lived in the hood from birth, you can't call yourself a native of that hood. You can move out of the neighborhood you grew up in, but you would still be considered a native because you came up there, seen the neighborhood at its worst, etc

Last edited by Vicman; 11-22-2019 at 09:41 AM..
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Old 11-22-2019, 09:49 AM
 
4,703 posts, read 8,478,822 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JYHTOWN View Post
O.F. Allen, an early settler and nephew of a Houston founder, wrote of his experience in the infant city:
"Once could hardly picture the jungle and swampy woods that a good portion of the city is built upon. These swampy grounds had to be cleared and drained. The writer himself quite clearly remembers that the southwestern portion of the city was a green scum lake, studded with giant sweet gum trees, and water from one to two and a half feet deep... The labor of clearing the great space was done by negro slaves and Mexicans, as no white man could have worked and endured the insect bites and malaria, snake bites, impure water, and other hardships. Many of the blacks died before their work was done."
We need plaques in Houston that talk about this matter of factly. An American woman living in Germany noted that Germany uses comprehensive historical education throughout society to talk about atrocities the Nazis did. We need to talk about atrocities the old white slavers did back in the day. https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cu...ng-our-history

Quote:
By comparison, she writes, “Imagine a monument to the Middle Passage or the genocide of Native Americans at the center of the Washington Mall. Suppose you could walk down a New York street and step on a reminder that this building was constructed with slave labor.”
Much of Houston was built after Jim Crow, so no signs in those areas, but signs can absolutely go up in Downtown et al.
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