Bad News for Harvey Victims who lived downstream from the reservoirs

[WRM20]

Originally Posted by Jtxg

I've lived in the Houston area my whole life. I was wondering (because I honestly do not know), was the reservoir there when they started building houses? If so, it just seems like an obvious risk associated with buying a house near one.

The reservoirs were constructed in the 40's and 50's, and there were very few houses in the areas that flooded. The house came later.

[Hopeful for Life]

Originally Posted by WRM20

The reservoirs were constructed in the 40's and 50's, and there were very few houses in the areas that flooded. The house came later.

1945, 1948. There was supposed to be a third one, but they ran out of money.

[gwarnecke]

Originally Posted by LocalPlanner

Exactly - the ACOE dramatically upped the release rates late in the evening after many folks went to bed, and the City then decided to encourage leaving. Maybe the City should have decided that even the lower release rates from earlier in the day were still too risky for folks to stay? I don't know.

I remember the Mayor repeatedly defending his decision not to evacuate Houston, claiming it would cause gridlock/chaos on the roads, etc. It's bizarre to me that the City of Houston seemed to treat evacuation as a binary decision: ie we evacuate all of Houston or we evacuate no one.

Why couldn't they have evacuated residents between Hwy 6, I-10, Briar Forest Drive, and Gessner out of an abundance of caution? Similar precautionary approaches were taken in Fort Bend County, Sugar Land, Katy, Galveston, and other surrounding jurisdictions - voluntary and mandatory evacuations were issued on a neighborhood-by-neighborhood and in some cases a street-by-street basis. I have friends in Katy who fell under mandatory evacuation, even though (thank God) the reservoirs crested over a mile from their house.

I seriously hope the City has learned from this experience, but I am not convinced that they have - especially since they don't seem willing to investigate or admit where the communication breakdown occurred in the case of the reservoir releases.

In regards to the other comments that downstream residents "should have known about the risk":
-The floodplain maps that most of us reviewed before buying our homes accounted for rain-induced flooding risk, not reservoir release risk.
-Before Harvey, our neighborhood had never experienced major flooding since the first homes were built in the early 70s, thanks in part to the presence of the reservoirs.
-Flood control reservoirs by their very nature are built to protect properties downstream of the reservoirs, not upstream of the reservoirs!

[Hopeful for Life]

Originally Posted by gwarnecke

I remember the Mayor repeatedly defending his decision not to evacuate Houston, claiming it would cause gridlock/chaos on the roads, etc. It's bizarre to me that the City of Houston seemed to treat evacuation as a binary decision: ie we evacuate all of Houston or we evacuate no one.

Why couldn't they have evacuated residents between Hwy 6, I-10, Briar Forest Drive, and Gessner out of an abundance of caution? Similar precautionary approaches were taken in Fort Bend County, Sugar Land, Katy, Galveston, and other surrounding jurisdictions - voluntary and mandatory evacuations were issued on a neighborhood-by-neighborhood and in some cases a street-by-street basis. I have friends in Katy who fell under mandatory evacuation, even though (thank God) the reservoirs crested over a mile from their house.

I seriously hope the City has learned from this experience, but I am not convinced that they have - especially since they don't seem willing to investigate or admit where the communication breakdown occurred in the case of the reservoir releases.

In regards to the other comments that downstream residents "should have known about the risk":
-The floodplain maps that most of us reviewed before buying our homes accounted for rain-induced flooding risk, not reservoir release risk.
-Before Harvey, our neighborhood had never experienced major flooding since the first homes were built in the early 70s, thanks in part to the presence of the reservoirs.
-Flood control reservoirs by their very nature are built to protect properties downstream of the reservoirs, not upstream of the reservoirs!

You just make too much sense! If the ACOE/governments knew of the potential damage after the Hurricane Allison experience, why did they not evacuate the areas around the reservoirs as you mentioned? Our city leaders REALLY let us down. I wish that I had known what a clown that Sylvester Turner is- I'd take back my vote for him! I was extremely busy in the Fall and spent a lot of time in rental cars driving between here, Dallas & San Antonio. I wasn't aware that he wavered so much. I'll never forget seeing the despair of this kindly older woman who came back to her first floor apartment a couple of weeks after the destruction. She was crying on someone's shoulder because she probably lost everything and may not have carried renters' insurance. I lived at the end of Barker Cypress south of Katy Freeway.
Tomorrow, I;m going to a community session put on by one of the law firms that is working on the case. I'll find out more and report back to this thread.

[Hopeful for Life]

Originally Posted by Hopeful for Life

You just make too much sense! If the ACOE/governments knew of the potential damage after the Hurricane Allison experience, why did they not evacuate the areas around the reservoirs as you mentioned? Our city leaders REALLY let us down. I wish that I had known what a clown that Sylvester Turner is- I'd take back my vote for him! I was extremely busy in the Fall and spent a lot of time in rental cars driving between here, Dallas & San Antonio. I wasn't aware that he wavered so much. I'll never forget seeing the despair of this kindly older woman who came back to her first floor apartment a couple of weeks after the destruction. She was crying on someone's shoulder because she probably lost everything and may not have carried renters' insurance. I lived at the end of Barker Cypress south of Katy Freeway.
Tomorrow, I;m going to a community session put on by one of the law firms that is working on the case. I'll find out more and report back to this thread.

Inside Addicks Barker – Learn about the lawsuit

Interesting meeting to say the least. I found out that I actually DID live among the Upstream class, so there is still hope in my case. The legal team showed us written proof that the ACOE engineers had been concerned about potential flooding dating back to 1973, when there was little development in the area. The issue came up again in 1980, 1995 and 2004. There were 10 potential options listed. In each situation, the ACOE chose to do nothing, kinda of a "pass the buck" to the next ACOE team in charge. By 1995, they could have purchased the extra land that they needed for $475M, but decided against it.
In no case did the developers, county or city advise the property buyers that they were buying in the design pool of the reservoir.

The first judge "certified" the liability, but the gov't (with endless pockets) is refuting that. This could go to appeal by Nov 2020 at the plaintiffs' request, but could extend to March 2021.

[LocalPlanner]

Originally Posted by Hopeful for Life

Inside Addicks Barker – Learn about the lawsuit

Interesting meeting to say the least. I found out that I actually DID live among the Upstream class, so there is still hope in my case. The legal team showed us written proof that the ACOE engineers had been concerned about potential flooding dating back to 1973, when there was little development in the area. The issue came up again in 1980, 1995 and 2004. There were 10 potential options listed. In each situation, the ACOE chose to do nothing, kinda of a "pass the buck" to the next ACOE team in charge. By 1995, they could have purchased the extra land that they needed for $475M, but decided against it.
In no case did the developers, county or city advise the property buyers that they were buying in the design pool of the reservoir.

The first judge "certified" the liability, but the gov't (with endless pockets) is refuting that. This could go to appeal by Nov 2020 at the plaintiffs' request, but could extend to March 2021.

What has mystified me about the upstream cases is how the counties and City of Houston have escaped any liability for not requiring the information about the flood pool to property buyers.

[Oskar_Z28]

So, I live downstream and when I purchased my home along Terry Hershey park, it wasn't in the flood zone. As a matter of fact it still isn't. I did flood, and supposedly this was 1st time ever in that neighborhood. So here are some points I would like to make about what was said above:

1. Harris County and COH specifically told everyone to stay inside even after the Harvey already passed. If there was even a hint of an evacuation order, I would have left with no problem the evening before gates opened (I was actually packed and ready to go), and if my house flooded, so be it. But I didn't see anything. FB county evacuated their side, but Harris Co didn't. But in the end one clown Judge Emmit is out, while the other Turner still in. My family was put through unnecessary trauma because of inaction of out officials.

2. ACOE did not inform anyone what would happen if the dam was fully opened. Another incompetent government agency.

3. I did have insurance, and FEMA paid out fast. So props to FEMA. Guess what, the taxpayers were on the hook for the maximum of the FEMA insurance on my house, which paid for full remodel and now I have a very nice house by the park. Thank you taxpayers - my yearly dues only covered small fraction. Guess what....if I flood again, I will be paid again. OH, and I am still in low flood risk area, so my premiums are minimal.

4. My neighbors that were in the lawsuit - I hope they appeal and get a different ruling. I read this judges ruling, and he was unsympathetic, and tried to deflect the the government taking property to nature. Government's long inaction to improve COH / Harris county flood control led to this issue.

[marksmu]

Originally Posted by Dopo

don't understand why anybody downstream from a reservoir or dam is surprised that at some point it was opened and their area got flooded

Stop blaming other people and blame yourself for buying in that area

That right there is pretty harsh - and ignorant - the Dams were constructed to prevent down stream flooding....the people upstream are the ones that should have known just by looking at a map that they were purchasing land inside the banks of the levy.

Its nearly impossible to accurately map how a dam release will flow when the gates are fully opened...especially when the bayous are already at flood stage from natural rainfall. The only reason the gates were opened, if I recall correctly, was not that there was upstream flooding, it was that the upstream flooding was feared to cause the levy to fail when it went around it, or topped it. A levy that was already rated poor.

So to prevent the whole thing from failing they opened the gates, in a rather poorly executed fashion, in the middle of the night, taking with them lots of homes that did not lie in a flood plane, and that would not have flooded had the gates not been opened while the bayous were still in flood stages.

It is pretty much a failure to manage the detention levels properly. Had they been gradually letting water out all along, it would have likely been far less damaging, but they had never had to do that before, so we got these catastrophic flow rates. Just failure of government.

[JohnStein]

Wasnt there a lawsuit to the developers and/or the real estate agents?

[Lakeway Man]

Huck Fouston. Left after Harvey and ain't ever going back. Good luck folks. You live in a cesspool.