Houston VS Dallas young family (Fort Worth, Plano: schools, pros and cons, taxes)

[As Above So Below...]

Originally Posted by LocalPlanner

Again everyone piling on with the "DFW suburbs are superior" trope that's been going on for years in this forum. First, regarding Harris County, honestly since the City of Houston has historically had very limited or no land use regulation, there wasn't much difference in the look or feel between incorporated Houston and unincorporated Harris County (or the other Houston-area counties). Second, while some of the DFW suburbs have done some beneficial investments in streetscape and landscape, and may have ordinances like sign ordinances and landscape ordinances, they have also enacted intrusive and unacceptable regulations like minimum lot sizes, minimum home sizes, bans of multifamily and ADUs, etc. Using exclusionary-minded government power in that way, which unfairly restricts property rights and inhibits beneficial market activity, is not something we want in TX. It's a California / West Coast / New England mindset that is already too prevalent in the Austin and DFW areas and should be ended.

Yeah, the suburbs are simply superior in DFW. I say that having lived in both for year. Why?

1) Entertainment options - you dont have to drive to Dallas or Fort Worth for entertainment or good restaurants
2) Transportation - DART provides rail service into several suburbs and that's only expanding
3) Employment Opportunities - the number of jobs and number of quality jobs available in places like Plano, Frisco, Irving, etc. are unmatched in the Houston burbs.
4) Planning - things are laid out much better

You seem to be arguing that lax zoning is better. Thats fine for a city like Houston, but for suburbs its bad. People move to suburbs because those restrictions are there. People who move to suburbs want an orderly, safe existence with good schools. The fact that suburbs also offer amenities is a bonus.

[Mr. Clutch]

Originally Posted by As Above So Below...

Yeah, the suburbs are simply superior in DFW. I say that having lived in both for year. Why?

1) Entertainment options - you dont have to drive to Dallas or Fort Worth for entertainment or good restaurants
2) Transportation - DART provides rail service into several suburbs and that's only expanding
3) Employment Opportunities - the number of jobs and number of quality jobs available in places like Plano, Frisco, Irving, etc. are unmatched in the Houston burbs.
4) Planning - things are laid out much better

You seem to be arguing that lax zoning is better. Thats fine for a city like Houston, but for suburbs its bad. People move to suburbs because those restrictions are there. People who move to suburbs want an orderly, safe existence with good schools. The fact that suburbs also offer amenities is a bonus.

Agreed, and I think this is one of the factors that plays into why Houston generally lags behind places like DFW and Atlanta when it comes to domestic migration - if you are looking to live in the city Houston offers more than those two places but if you want a suburban existence (as many domestic migrants do), you'd be hard-pressed to find a single advantage of moving to Houston burbs over DFW or Atlanta burbs (outside of possibly cost). They are indeed a bit better overall when it comes to suburban form imo.

[As Above So Below...]

Originally Posted by Mr. Clutch

Agreed, and I think this is one of the factors that plays into why Houston generally lags behind places like DFW and Atlanta when it comes to domestic migration - if you are looking to live in the city Houston offers more than those two places but if you want a suburban existence (as many domestic migrants do), you'd be hard-pressed to find a single advantage of moving to Houston burbs over DFW or Atlanta burbs (outside of possibly cost). They are indeed a bit better overall when it comes to suburban form imo.

This is a good point. If we look at national domestic moving trends we see several things that Americans prefer:

1) Either warm/moderate weather or mountain environments
2) Suburban counties
3) They dont seem to like being around large numbers of immigrants
4) Affordable COL

I outlined a bunch of it on this thread:

https://www.city-data.com/forum/gene...sis-based.html

Really, only DFW, Atlanta, and Orlando get a healthy balance of international immigration and domestic migration of all metro areas in the US.

Even within those metro areas, Dallas, Fulton, and Harris counties are all bleeding domestic born residents in favor of counties like Collin, Montgomery, and Cobb.

[crone]

Originally Posted by usc619

Something to keep in mind when dealing with Texas property tax racket, DFW rarely has MUD taxes and most of the Houston area does. Avg tax rate in DFW is around 2.2%, compared to the 3 plus % you'll be paying in the Houston Suburbs.

Scott Burns once did a column about cost of living . He said the easiest way to get a 20K a year raise is to move from Dallas to Ft Worth.

My neighbors in Rockwall were retired air force all working for E Systems. She remarked about the Dallas ladies who lunch were all off at the national symphony society meeting. The ladies from other places were all commenting that the Dallas ladies changed clothes 3 times a day. Even their jewelry.

When being introduced to a new person the question 'when were you saved' is not odd.

[As Above So Below...]

Originally Posted by crone

When being introduced to a new person the question 'when were you saved' is not odd.

In 6 years in Dallas, it never came up. Granted maybe it has to do with where in DFW you are and the company you keep. I am (as is probably obvious) very hostile to religion so maybe no one asked me for that reason.

[lhafer]

Originally Posted by As Above So Below...

In 6 years in Dallas, it never came up. Granted maybe it has to do with where in DFW you are and the company you keep. I am (as is probably obvious) very hostile to religion so maybe no one asked me for that reason.

Having been from the DFW area (a western suburb of Fort Worth actually) since 3rd grade - I have never heard anyone ask me what my religion was, what church I went to, or when I was saved either.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by Redlionjr

I completely agree with THIS! Not trying to pile up on Houston but the unincorporated Harris County landscape is one of the less appealing things about the metro to me. As many pros as I find about Houston, had I put enough stock into unincorporated areas when I first moved here as I do now I might not have even lived in Houston going on 10 plus years now. An unincorporated Harris County meant nothing to me when I was a single 20 something year old living in 1bd room apt in the actual CITY of HOUSTON. Was something I never really paid attention to.

It was only when I started visiting my Wife(GF) at the time who lived out in Spring( unincorporated Harris County) that I realized how unorganized an unincorporated area could look. Oh don't get me wrong, there's some nice looking subdivisions here and there. Bland but nice looking nonetheless. But the commercial roads, the FM roads, streets that lead into several neighborhoods. Talk about a mess. No rhyme or reason just build whatever comes to your mind and we'll figure out the rest when we get there.

Complete opposite of a lot of DFW suburbs.

Like Plano. Drive down Coit Road and see 3 miles straight of dark red brick doctor's boxes. If you like that sort of thing.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by As Above So Below...

The numbers I posted were from 2018 and foreign born only.

I just did a quick lookup before I saw your post.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by fbf2006

Why would annexation make more sense than the unincorporated areas being incorporated into their own city/town? I’m really asking. Is there a reason?
In all, I’m with crone and redlion. I do agree with Vitamin that there are many nice neighborhoods/communities, and not just the newest ones people seem to like.

To keep the core strong. That is why the Texas annexation laws were originally written as they were.

There is no question that has been a big benefit to Texas cities while other places like St. Louis and Cleveland have suffered.

Now you can debate how far that should go and whether it would be better to incorporate those existing unincorporated areas. I think pretty much everyone agreed the Woodlands made sense being separate from Houston. Although they have been in no hurry to incorporate.

[crone]

Originally Posted by bu2

To keep the core strong. That is why the Texas annexation laws were originally written as they were.

There is no question that has been a big benefit to Texas cities while other places like St. Louis and Cleveland have suffered.

Now you can debate how far that should go and whether it would be better to incorporate those existing unincorporated areas. I think pretty much everyone agreed the Woodlands made sense being separate from Houston. Although they have been in no hurry to incorporate.

How much of St. Louis county is unincorporated? Is St Louis a fair comparison. They removed themselves from the county 100 years ago. IIRC, the Republicans got the county, the Democrats got the city government and the blacks got the schools. At least that was the set up when we lived there. Also the city had that 1% city earnings tax.

IIRC, there is currently some talk of incorporating in the Woodlands. IDK. The county Republican party is as fractured as the Harris county democratic party was 40 years ago.