08-29-2020, 04:15 PM
Location: Tricity, PL
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If a Category 4 or 5 storm came ashore near the south end of Galveston Island, it would cause the worst environmental disaster in United States history, and could deal another staggering blow to the U.S. economy and national security, because of the potential loss of military grade jet fuel production.
The methodology used by the Army Corps of Engineers substantially restricts the size of storm to be used in the design of protection structures. This methodology is outdated, does not adequately address the environmental and economic risks associated with such storms and does not factor in climate change and its impact on storm intensity.
We are not protected against a hurricane cat 4-5 surge. (current protection is 17' but
we need protection adequate to a 30' surge level).
We are spending significant sums of money on inadequate protection that creates a false sense of success and security.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/28/o...s-houston.html
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08-29-2020, 09:02 PM
Location: Texas
1,387 posts, read
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Protection is not built to a certain category storm. It based on the chance of a certain size storm happening in any given yr. i.e. 50 yr event, 100 yr event, 500 yr event. What's built is what Congress authorizes. If a study is submitted showing that this type of protection needed but Congress authorizes a lesser amount, that's what get built. And getting a project authorized doesn't mean it gets built. There are plenty of projects authorized but not funded.
You can't satisfy everyone. The bigger the flood protection, the more land you need. People don't like giving up land no matter the cause. People are very passionate about their land. Also, environment and economic risks are also taken into account. I don't know where you are getting your information but it's way off. Subsidence is also included in these studies.
08-29-2020, 09:24 PM
Location: Houston/Austin, TX
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Reputation: 6315
You can't look at Lake Charles and compare with what would happen in Houston. As a resident of both Houston and Lake Charles in different times, Lake Charles has much more problems than Houston does as far as hurricane sustaining. Lake Charles is engineering and structurally not close prepared for a hurricane by any means.
For starters, you're mentioning calculation methods being outdated and you're not taking into account what was really outdated here. Lake Charles has been structurally outdated for a long time. Uncoincidentally, Ryan St (which is extremely outdated) received much much more catastrophic damage than Nelson St which is extremely modern. Even Galveston is structured light years better than Lake Charles. A Cat 5 in Downtown Houston wouldn't cause the damage that the Capitol 1 building received in Downtown Lake Charles. Don't get me wrong, I love Lake Charles and the time I spent there. But if Lake Charles and Houston were houses, and Hurricane Laura was a wolf blowing, Lake Charles would be the straw house and Houston would be the brick house.
Using the "what if" it began near the south end of Galveston Island, with all else remaining the same, it wouldn't not have been the worst disaster in US history by any means, although it would have definitely caused plenty of devastation in Houston's underserved neighborhoods. Especially considering storm surge being your reasoning. Every storm is different and there are reasons Laura didn't cause much storm surge. Laura being a fast moving storm and relatively dry caused very little storm surge.
Now don't get me wrong, there is plenty we still need to improve and I'm completely with you there, but the effects of Laura in Houston would have been entirely different than they were to Lake Charles.
Last edited by ParaguaneroSwag; 08-29-2020 at 09:33 PM ..
08-29-2020, 09:34 PM
Location: Houston/Austin, TX
9,745 posts, read
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
tewest86
You can't satisfy everyone. The bigger the flood protection, the more land you need. People don't like giving up land no matter the cause. People are very passionate about their land. Also, environment and economic risks are also taken into account. I don't know where you are getting your information but it's way off. Subsidence is also included in these studies.
Considering New York Times was her source that pretty much explains it
. I'm a Democratic voter and even I laugh at the New York times inaccuracy.
08-30-2020, 03:54 PM
2,544 posts, read
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Reputation: 3970
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ParaguaneroSwag
Considering New York Times was her source that pretty much explains it
. I'm a Democratic voter and even I laugh at the New York times inaccuracy.
It's written by a researcher at Rice University and published by the New York Times.
08-30-2020, 06:19 PM
Location: Houston(Screwston),TX
4,364 posts, read
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Reputation: 6643
Quote:
Originally Posted by
houston-nomad
It's written by a researcher at Rice University and published by the New York Times.
Exactly. I don't see why some Houstonians get so defensive over articles like this. And the fact that people think they know more than a co-director of the Severe Storm Prediction, Education and Evacuation from Disaster Center at Rice University is mind boggling. I mean the fact he brought up his political party instead of dealing with science shows why America can't handle the pandemic to begin with. Let alone a catastrophic natural disaster that could happen. But nooo it's impossible Houston is just fine! lol
08-30-2020, 07:40 PM
Location: Houston/Austin, TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Redlionjr
Exactly. I don't see why some Houstonians get so defensive over articles like this. And the fact that people think they know more than a co-director of the Severe Storm Prediction, Education and Evacuation from Disaster Center at Rice University is mind boggling. I mean the fact he brought up his political party instead of dealing with science shows why America can't handle the pandemic to begin with. Let alone a catastrophic natural disaster that could happen. But nooo it's impossible Houston is just fine! lol
Right...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ParaguaneroSwag
Now don't get me wrong, there is plenty we still need to improve and I'm completely with you there, but the effects of Laura in Houston would have been entirely different than they were to Lake Charles.
So I said Houston is just fine where? My argument wasn’t to say Houston is good as is. My argument is comparing what happened in Lake Charles and imagine the exact same situation would happen in Houston. Currently in Lake Charles seeing what areas are and aren’t effected. Most of Lake Charles is very outdated as compared to Houston. This is a fact. Many areas in Houston would see devastation if the exact storm through the path described here would.
08-30-2020, 08:34 PM
Location: Texas
1,387 posts, read
983,531 times
Reputation: 1548
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Redlionjr
Exactly. I don't see why some Houstonians get so defensive over articles like this. And the fact that people think they know more than a co-director of the Severe Storm Prediction, Education and Evacuation from Disaster Center at Rice University is mind boggling. I mean the fact he brought up his political party instead of dealing with science shows why America can't handle the pandemic to begin with. Let alone a catastrophic natural disaster that could happen. But nooo it's impossible Houston is just fine! lol
Ok, I’ll tell you that the article is flat out wrong. Here’s a hint, deciding flood protection is a major part of my job. The writer has no idea what they are talking about. I’ve taken part in plenty of studies with the Corps. Most recently in NO. I exactly what goes into deciding levels of protection. I’ll leave it at that.
It’s so much that this piece is missing. It’s just something thrown out by the researcher. Theirs reasons for certain decisions. A lot of it has to do with laws and what’s authorized. But I digress. It’s not just as easy as “hey, let’s build protection that can stop a 30 ft. surge”. NOLA doesn’t even have that.
Last edited by tewest86; 08-30-2020 at 08:44 PM ..
08-30-2020, 09:06 PM
Location: Houston/Austin, TX
9,745 posts, read
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Reputation: 6315
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tewest86
Ok, I’ll tell you that the article is flat out wrong. Here’s a hint, deciding flood protection is a major part of my job. The writer has no idea what they are talking about. I’ve taken part in plenty of studies with the Corps. Most recently in NO. I exactly what goes into deciding levels of protection. I’ll leave it at that.
It’s so much that this piece is missing. It’s just something thrown out by the researcher. Theirs reasons for certain decisions. A lot of it has to do with laws and what’s authorized. But I digress. It’s not just as easy as “hey, let’s build protection that can stop a 30 ft. surge”. NOLA doesn’t even have that.
He works for Rice University so he can’t be wrong with
All jokes aside, I agree. People don’t look at the entire picture. There’s so much more that goes into the effects of a hurricane then just “its a Cat 4-5”. There’s many variables. The thing about Lake Charles devastation not being the same in Houston stems from Laura being a relatively dry, fast moving storm. There still would be devastated neighborhoods in the region but Lake Charles had much more issues than that.
08-30-2020, 09:13 PM
18,044 posts, read
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Same BS as always
Pass laws to reduce flooding in new Houston developments = No, it’s too expensive
Spend billions building some barrier that is not guaranteed to work = Yes, let’s do it
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People in Group quarters - Hospices or homes for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Military hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Other hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals or wards for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Mental (Psychiatric) hospitals or wards (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the deaf (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the blind (%)
People in Group quarters - Orthopedic wards and institutions for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in general hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in military hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Juvenile institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Long-term care (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for abused, dependent, and neglected children (%)
People in Group quarters - Residential treatment centers for emotionally disturbed children (%)
People in Group quarters - Training schools for juvenile delinquents (%)
People in Group quarters - Short-term care, detention or diagnostic centers for delinquent children (%)
People in Group quarters - Type of juvenile institution unknown (%)
People in Group quarters - Noninstitutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - College dormitories (includes college quarters off campus) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - On base (%)
People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
People in Group quarters - Transient quarters for temporary residents (%)
People in Group quarters - Military ships (%)
People in Group quarters - Group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes or halfway houses for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Other group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)