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Old 08-29-2020, 04:15 PM
 
Location: Tricity, PL
61,174 posts, read 86,024,495 times
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If a Category 4 or 5 storm came ashore near the south end of Galveston Island, it would cause the worst environmental disaster in United States history, and could deal another staggering blow to the U.S. economy and national security, because of the potential loss of military grade jet fuel production.
The methodology used by the Army Corps of Engineers substantially restricts the size of storm to be used in the design of protection structures. This methodology is outdated, does not adequately address the environmental and economic risks associated with such storms and does not factor in climate change and its impact on storm intensity.
We are not protected against a hurricane cat 4-5 surge. (current protection is 17' but
we need protection adequate to a 30' surge level).
We are spending significant sums of money on inadequate protection that creates a false sense of success and security.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/28/o...s-houston.html
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Old 08-29-2020, 09:02 PM
 
Location: Texas
1,387 posts, read 983,531 times
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Protection is not built to a certain category storm. It based on the chance of a certain size storm happening in any given yr. i.e. 50 yr event, 100 yr event, 500 yr event. What's built is what Congress authorizes. If a study is submitted showing that this type of protection needed but Congress authorizes a lesser amount, that's what get built. And getting a project authorized doesn't mean it gets built. There are plenty of projects authorized but not funded.

You can't satisfy everyone. The bigger the flood protection, the more land you need. People don't like giving up land no matter the cause. People are very passionate about their land. Also, environment and economic risks are also taken into account. I don't know where you are getting your information but it's way off. Subsidence is also included in these studies.
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Old 08-29-2020, 09:24 PM
 
Location: Houston/Austin, TX
9,745 posts, read 6,383,522 times
Reputation: 6315
You can't look at Lake Charles and compare with what would happen in Houston. As a resident of both Houston and Lake Charles in different times, Lake Charles has much more problems than Houston does as far as hurricane sustaining. Lake Charles is engineering and structurally not close prepared for a hurricane by any means.

For starters, you're mentioning calculation methods being outdated and you're not taking into account what was really outdated here. Lake Charles has been structurally outdated for a long time. Uncoincidentally, Ryan St (which is extremely outdated) received much much more catastrophic damage than Nelson St which is extremely modern. Even Galveston is structured light years better than Lake Charles. A Cat 5 in Downtown Houston wouldn't cause the damage that the Capitol 1 building received in Downtown Lake Charles. Don't get me wrong, I love Lake Charles and the time I spent there. But if Lake Charles and Houston were houses, and Hurricane Laura was a wolf blowing, Lake Charles would be the straw house and Houston would be the brick house.

Using the "what if" it began near the south end of Galveston Island, with all else remaining the same, it wouldn't not have been the worst disaster in US history by any means, although it would have definitely caused plenty of devastation in Houston's underserved neighborhoods. Especially considering storm surge being your reasoning. Every storm is different and there are reasons Laura didn't cause much storm surge. Laura being a fast moving storm and relatively dry caused very little storm surge.

Now don't get me wrong, there is plenty we still need to improve and I'm completely with you there, but the effects of Laura in Houston would have been entirely different than they were to Lake Charles.

Last edited by ParaguaneroSwag; 08-29-2020 at 09:33 PM..
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Old 08-29-2020, 09:34 PM
 
Location: Houston/Austin, TX
9,745 posts, read 6,383,522 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tewest86 View Post

You can't satisfy everyone. The bigger the flood protection, the more land you need. People don't like giving up land no matter the cause. People are very passionate about their land. Also, environment and economic risks are also taken into account. I don't know where you are getting your information but it's way off. Subsidence is also included in these studies.
Considering New York Times was her source that pretty much explains it . I'm a Democratic voter and even I laugh at the New York times inaccuracy.
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Old 08-30-2020, 03:54 PM
 
2,544 posts, read 4,019,818 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ParaguaneroSwag View Post
Considering New York Times was her source that pretty much explains it . I'm a Democratic voter and even I laugh at the New York times inaccuracy.
It's written by a researcher at Rice University and published by the New York Times.
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Old 08-30-2020, 06:19 PM
 
Location: Houston(Screwston),TX
4,364 posts, read 4,559,457 times
Reputation: 6643
Quote:
Originally Posted by houston-nomad View Post
It's written by a researcher at Rice University and published by the New York Times.
Exactly. I don't see why some Houstonians get so defensive over articles like this. And the fact that people think they know more than a co-director of the Severe Storm Prediction, Education and Evacuation from Disaster Center at Rice University is mind boggling. I mean the fact he brought up his political party instead of dealing with science shows why America can't handle the pandemic to begin with. Let alone a catastrophic natural disaster that could happen. But nooo it's impossible Houston is just fine! lol
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Old 08-30-2020, 07:40 PM
 
Location: Houston/Austin, TX
9,745 posts, read 6,383,522 times
Reputation: 6315
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redlionjr View Post
Exactly. I don't see why some Houstonians get so defensive over articles like this. And the fact that people think they know more than a co-director of the Severe Storm Prediction, Education and Evacuation from Disaster Center at Rice University is mind boggling. I mean the fact he brought up his political party instead of dealing with science shows why America can't handle the pandemic to begin with. Let alone a catastrophic natural disaster that could happen. But nooo it's impossible Houston is just fine! lol
Right...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ParaguaneroSwag View Post

Now don't get me wrong, there is plenty we still need to improve and I'm completely with you there, but the effects of Laura in Houston would have been entirely different than they were to Lake Charles.
So I said Houston is just fine where? My argument wasn’t to say Houston is good as is. My argument is comparing what happened in Lake Charles and imagine the exact same situation would happen in Houston. Currently in Lake Charles seeing what areas are and aren’t effected. Most of Lake Charles is very outdated as compared to Houston. This is a fact. Many areas in Houston would see devastation if the exact storm through the path described here would.
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Old 08-30-2020, 08:34 PM
 
Location: Texas
1,387 posts, read 983,531 times
Reputation: 1548
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redlionjr View Post
Exactly. I don't see why some Houstonians get so defensive over articles like this. And the fact that people think they know more than a co-director of the Severe Storm Prediction, Education and Evacuation from Disaster Center at Rice University is mind boggling. I mean the fact he brought up his political party instead of dealing with science shows why America can't handle the pandemic to begin with. Let alone a catastrophic natural disaster that could happen. But nooo it's impossible Houston is just fine! lol
Ok, I’ll tell you that the article is flat out wrong. Here’s a hint, deciding flood protection is a major part of my job. The writer has no idea what they are talking about. I’ve taken part in plenty of studies with the Corps. Most recently in NO. I exactly what goes into deciding levels of protection. I’ll leave it at that.

It’s so much that this piece is missing. It’s just something thrown out by the researcher. Theirs reasons for certain decisions. A lot of it has to do with laws and what’s authorized. But I digress. It’s not just as easy as “hey, let’s build protection that can stop a 30 ft. surge”. NOLA doesn’t even have that.

Last edited by tewest86; 08-30-2020 at 08:44 PM..
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Old 08-30-2020, 09:06 PM
 
Location: Houston/Austin, TX
9,745 posts, read 6,383,522 times
Reputation: 6315
Quote:
Originally Posted by tewest86 View Post
Ok, I’ll tell you that the article is flat out wrong. Here’s a hint, deciding flood protection is a major part of my job. The writer has no idea what they are talking about. I’ve taken part in plenty of studies with the Corps. Most recently in NO. I exactly what goes into deciding levels of protection. I’ll leave it at that.

It’s so much that this piece is missing. It’s just something thrown out by the researcher. Theirs reasons for certain decisions. A lot of it has to do with laws and what’s authorized. But I digress. It’s not just as easy as “hey, let’s build protection that can stop a 30 ft. surge”. NOLA doesn’t even have that.
He works for Rice University so he can’t be wrong with

All jokes aside, I agree. People don’t look at the entire picture. There’s so much more that goes into the effects of a hurricane then just “its a Cat 4-5”. There’s many variables. The thing about Lake Charles devastation not being the same in Houston stems from Laura being a relatively dry, fast moving storm. There still would be devastated neighborhoods in the region but Lake Charles had much more issues than that.
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Old 08-30-2020, 09:13 PM
 
18,044 posts, read 25,086,874 times
Reputation: 16726
Same BS as always

Pass laws to reduce flooding in new Houston developments = No, it’s too expensive
Spend billions building some barrier that is not guaranteed to work = Yes, let’s do it
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