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Old 10-27-2020, 10:15 AM
 
Location: Houston(Screwston),TX
2,956 posts, read 2,958,412 times
Reputation: 3808

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Quote:
Originally Posted by houston-nomad View Post
I really do get this. My view, though, is that we have a two-party system. I don't think you change that with a wasted vote in a Presidential election, I think you change it through a grass-roots effort to built a real third party, or to change one of the two parties to better reflect your interests. While anger at the limitations of a two-party system are totally legitimate, opting out only disenfranchises yourself, it doesn't make any measurable statement or impact.
The problem is grass root efforts lack money in comparison to the Democratic or Republican party. This is literally why some Independents choose to join either party because they know pretty much they'll have no chance of being considered a serious candidate if they're in a 3rd party. That leads those politicians to eventually compromise their stances and join the 2 parties. They know they won't be able to change either party they jump into. It's a system dependent on lobbyist with their own agendas. The American 2 party system is extremely partisan and is trending more partisan with each election. How any American voter expects any real change from this system is beyond insane to me.

I'll direct you to this article. I know you'll disagree. Voters on either side ALWAYS do. But the end results remain the same in this country with both parties continuing to point the finger at each other for the problems of America. And Americans will be right back here 4 years from now saying the same thing "Your vote really matters this time."

https://medium.com/@grantpiperwritin...es-6f427f16fdc
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Old 10-27-2020, 10:29 AM
 
2,011 posts, read 3,297,259 times
Reputation: 2875
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redlionjr View Post
The problem is grass root efforts lack money in comparison to the Democratic or Republican party. This is literally why some Independents choose to join either party because they know pretty much they'll have no chance of being considered a serious candidate if they're in a 3rd party. That leads those politicians to eventually compromise their stances and join the 2 parties. They know they won't be able to change either party they jump into. It's a system dependent on lobbyist with their own agendas. The American 2 party system is extremely partisan and is trending more partisan with each election. How any American voter expects any real change from this system is beyond insane to me.

I'll direct you to this article. I know you'll disagree. Voters on either side ALWAYS do. But the end results remain the same in this country with both parties continuing to point the finger at each other for the problems of America. And Americans will be right back here 4 years from now saying the same thing "Your vote really matters this time."

https://medium.com/@grantpiperwritin...es-6f427f16fdc
I think recent history proves you wrong: look at Bernie Sanders. He is far more leftie than the Democrats, but by working within the 2-party system, he has successfully pulled the Democratic Party to the left, and made his priorities (namely a public option for healthcare) part of the platform. It's not the wholesale socialized medicine concept he might have wanted, but it's a huge step from where we were at the beginning of Obama's first term.

And by the way, I don't disagree. I think we would be better off with something other than a two-party system. And I think we'd be far better off without the electoral college. But in the meantime, the Democratic Party is WAY closer to my beliefs than the Republican Party, which is an absolute moral abomination that is single-handedly destroying the earth and our democracy. So that's the tent I'm voting in.
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Old 10-27-2020, 02:17 PM
 
Location: 75075
306 posts, read 167,021 times
Reputation: 148
any idea what polls are for Texas’ 22nd Congressional District
only ones found are internal polls like sri up 5 points
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Old 10-27-2020, 03:20 PM
 
Location: Houston(Screwston),TX
2,956 posts, read 2,958,412 times
Reputation: 3808
Quote:
Originally Posted by houston-nomad View Post
I think recent history proves you wrong: look at Bernie Sanders. He is far more leftie than the Democrats, but by working within the 2-party system, he has successfully pulled the Democratic Party to the left, and made his priorities (namely a public option for healthcare) part of the platform. It's not the wholesale socialized medicine concept he might have wanted, but it's a huge step from where we were at the beginning of Obama's first term.

And by the way, I don't disagree. I think we would be better off with something other than a two-party system. And I think we'd be far better off without the electoral college. But in the meantime, the Democratic Party is WAY closer to my beliefs than the Republican Party, which is an absolute moral abomination that is single-handedly destroying the earth and our democracy. So that's the tent I'm voting in.
Bernie has compromised way more than he's "changed" the Democratic party. Not to mention Bernie sold out decades ago. But me personally I felt he was a better candidate than Joe or Hillary. Yet you saw who the DNC got behind in the end. And we saw how he eventually gave in for the greater good of the DNC as predicted.

People like Andrew Yang or Marianne Williamson rarely get the support from the Democratic party to truly change the direction of the party. I mean just listen to Joe. He's a typical old school politician. So I don't see how any true forward thinking American can get behind either party. Both are corrupt and both put party before the people. It's been that way for a longgggggg time.

Knowing the electoral college decides the outcome and knowing they can vote against the popular vote(like last election) why not choose a 3rd party. It could truly show that the American public wants real change in politics. It could(maybe) shift Congress to put something other than Dem/Rep in some seats. As much as you believe the Republican party is destryoing society and the earth the other side thinks the exact same thing. I see it everyday from conservatives on this site. Just go in the NYC section and see what conservatives are saying about Democrats/Liberals. It's hilarious at this point.
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Old 10-27-2020, 03:26 PM
 
Location: Unplugged from the matrix
2,514 posts, read 1,302,665 times
Reputation: 2687
There is no way Texas is a swing state this year. Especially since you have more Blacks and Latinos voting for Trump this time around. They've been saying Texas was a swing state since 2004. Problem is Democrats haven't figured out how to campaign in Texas which is why Wendy Davis and later Beto didn't win.

As a matter of fact, Trump will probably win by a larger margin in 2020 than in 2016. If anyone brings up some stupid poll, I'll just point you to the ones in 2016. Why would America be different than the rest of the world which has gone through conservative waves these last few years? I've seen more displays of Trump support now and in places I wouldnt think of than in 2016. Heard it here first...
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Old 10-27-2020, 03:42 PM
 
15,720 posts, read 21,270,451 times
Reputation: 13522
Quote:
Originally Posted by DabOnEm View Post
There is no way Texas is a swing state this year. Especially since you have more Blacks and Latinos voting for Trump this time around. They've been saying Texas was a swing state since 2004. Problem is Democrats haven't figured out how to campaign in Texas which is why Wendy Davis and later Beto didn't win.
Republicans are doing a pretty good job with voter suppression in Texas


Texas counties temporarily blocked from offering multiple mail-in ballot drop-off locations (Oct. 11, 2020)
https://www.texastribune.org/2020/10...off-locations/

Hinojosa on Saturday said cutting the mail-in voting location was done to try to "steal the election." He pointed to the sheer size of Harris County, where 4.7 million Texans should have more than a single hand delivery location.

Harris County, the state’s most populous and home to Houston, had designated a dozen ballot drop-off locations in clerk offices across the county’s roughly 1,700 square miles, and had already begun collecting them. In Travis County, which includes Austin, officials had designated four locations where voters could deliver their ballots.



Order allowing Texas counties to have multiple mail-in ballot drop off sites is upheld, but appeal halts openings (Oct. 23, 2020)
https://www.texastribune.org/2020/10...llot-drop-off/

A state appeals court on Friday upheld a Travis County State district court order allowing Texas counties to have multiple drop-off locations for hand delivery of absentee ballots, undercutting Gov. Greg Abbott's recent directive limiting counties to one drop-off site.

The Travis County lawsuit argued that Abbott’s order violated state law. Brought by a Texas-based Anti-Defamation League, a voting rights advocacy group and a voter, the suit argued that the governor doesn’t have authority under state law to limit absentee ballot hand-delivery locations, and that his order violates voters’ equal protection rights under the state constitution.
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Old 10-27-2020, 05:59 PM
Status: "Reject Spiritual Enslavement" (set 13 days ago)
 
Location: Houston, TX
4,262 posts, read 1,663,261 times
Reputation: 5477
Quote:
Originally Posted by DabOnEm View Post
There is no way Texas is a swing state this year. Especially since you have more Blacks and Latinos voting for Trump this time around. They've been saying Texas was a swing state since 2004. Problem is Democrats haven't figured out how to campaign in Texas which is why Wendy Davis and later Beto didn't win.

As a matter of fact, Trump will probably win by a larger margin in 2020 than in 2016. If anyone brings up some stupid poll, I'll just point you to the ones in 2016. Why would America be different than the rest of the world which has gone through conservative waves these last few years? I've seen more displays of Trump support now and in places I wouldnt think of than in 2016. Heard it here first...
If I knew you in person, I would bet money on that. Not that Trump won’t win Texas because I think he will. I don’t think there is any way on earth he wins it by more than he did in 2016. The evidence? The 2018 mid terms and that the suburbs of the cities have as many Biden donors as trump ones of not more.
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Old 10-27-2020, 06:39 PM
 
3,774 posts, read 1,735,668 times
Reputation: 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by As Above So Below... View Post
If I knew you in person, I would bet money on that. Not that Trump won’t win Texas because I think he will. I don’t think there is any way on earth he wins it by more than he did in 2016. The evidence? The 2018 mid terms and that the suburbs of the cities have as many Biden donors as trump ones of not more.
You’re not lying here. I was in Webster and League City recently and you see nothing but Biden everywhere. Even that area that’s the blue collar-oil vulnerable side.
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Old 10-28-2020, 07:38 AM
 
Location: Houston/Brenham
4,594 posts, read 5,435,177 times
Reputation: 8863
Anyone who votes for a third-party candidate under our current system, and in this election, is literally throwing your vote away. It won't change a thing. You're wasting a vote. You must prefer one candidate over the other. Vote for that one. If you don't have a preference, you are living under a rock.

I am not debating your right to vote as you please. I am stating that voting for a third party candidate in Texas this year is like pissing in the wind. What's the point?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DabOnEm View Post
As a matter of fact, Trump will probably win by a larger margin in 2020 than in 2016.
I'll take that bet. Texas is unlikely to go blue, but it's as close as it's EVER been. No way Trump increases his margin. Same with Cornyn.
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Old 10-28-2020, 08:12 AM
 
Location: Houston(Screwston),TX
2,956 posts, read 2,958,412 times
Reputation: 3808
Quote:
Originally Posted by astrohip View Post
Anyone who votes for a third-party candidate under our current system, and in this election, is literally throwing your vote away. It won't change a thing. You're wasting a vote. You must prefer one candidate over the other. Vote for that one. If you don't have a preference, you are living under a rock.

I am not debating your right to vote as you please. I am stating that voting for a third party candidate in Texas this year is like pissing in the wind. What's the point?


I'll take that bet. Texas is unlikely to go blue, but it's as close as it's EVER been. No way Trump increases his margin. Same with Cornyn.
But you are debating my right to vote as I please. Like I stated earlier, the popular vote does not determine who becomes the next president.

Quote:
When American voters cast ballots in a general presidential election, they are choosing electors and telling them which candidate they think their state’s electors should support. The "national popular vote" is the sum of all the votes cast in the general election, nationwide. The presidential elections of 1876, 1888, 2000, and 2016 produced an Electoral College winner who did not receive the most votes in the general election.[4][5][6] Additionally, the presidential election of 1860 gave Lincoln a clear Electoral College victory, although he received only 40% of the popular vote (a plurality but not a majority of the total votes cast).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...%20nationwide.

Only wishful thinking democrats say this rhetoric because you believe your vote will magically change Texas into a blue state. You want to feel like you've made an impact in this society somehow. The fact is every election year is the "MOST IMPORTANT YEAR". Every election year is too important to vote for a 3rd-party candidate because it's just going to put power into the evil Republican party.

Democrat voters are starting to get more annoying than Republican voters at this point.
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