What Went Wrong With Texas’s Main Electric Grid and Could It Have Been Prevented? (Houston: apartment, coop)

[oceangaia]

Originally Posted by astrohip

One thing that should be changed... plans like Griddy should be prohibited. There is no reason someone should use or need a plan like this. It's cutting-edge capitalism, with no safety net. While I don't believe in the nanny state, I do think there are things that should not be allowed, for the public good.

Having said that, as my dad told me many a time... "you dance with the one that brung you".

Love this!

I have no clue where you stand. In the previous post you disagree with me and said "absolutely should be allowed to happen". Now you say these plans "should be prohibited". Which is exactly what I meant when I said it shouldn't be allowed to happen.

[astrohip]

Originally Posted by oceangaia

I have no clue where you stand. In the previous post you disagree with me and said "absolutely should be allowed to happen". Now you say these plans "should be prohibited". Which is exactly what I meant when I said it shouldn't be allowed to happen.

Sorry for the confusion...

I have no sympathy for the people who signed up for Griddy. They should have known what they were getting into, and now they have to pay the price. If they didn't, it's an expensive lesson. What I disagreed with was letting these people off the hook. They saved in cheap times, they pay in tough times.

Now, Part II: Having said that, there is no reason to even have these type plans in the first place. Nothing good ever comes from them. Every 2-3 years, this seems to happen. So I was proposing banning a 100% free market swing pricing program.

Summary: Those who signed up pay the piper. But why not eliminate those plans, to protect people from their worst instincts. And from this in the future.

[LonghornHotspur]

Originally Posted by astrohip

Sorry for the confusion...

I have no sympathy for the people who signed up for Griddy. They should have known what they were getting into, and now they have to pay the price. If they didn't, it's an expensive lesson. What I disagreed with was letting these people off the hook. They saved in cheap times, they pay in tough times.

Now, Part II: Having said that, there is no reason to even have these type plans in the first place. Nothing good ever comes from them. Every 2-3 years, this seems to happen. So I was proposing banning a 100% free market swing pricing program.

Summary: Those who signed up pay the piper. But why not eliminate those plans, to protect people from their worst instincts. And from this in the future.

Two totally different questions but I tend to agree with you.

It would be a moral hazard to let these people out of their plans AFTER they willingly signed up. No one is mentioning that ERCOT RT went negative all weekend (more weird operating practices, too technical to describe here). Anyone still on Griddy GOT PAID for the energy they used. You can see it here, change operating day to 2/21:

Real-Time Settlement Point Prices Display

Now, as to the legislature/ PUCT outlawing variable rate plans? That would be regulation, wouldn't it? (/s font on) God forbid Texas have regulation, it kills capitalism. Dereg also kills people who freeze to death or die of carbon monoxide poisoning, but that's beside the point.

[oceangaia]

Originally Posted by LonghornHotspur

Now, as to the legislature/ PUCT outlawing variable rate plans? That would be regulation, wouldn't it? (/s font on) God forbid Texas have regulation, it kills capitalism. Dereg also kills people who freeze to death or die of carbon monoxide poisoning, but that's beside the point.

There's a middle ground between fixed rates and unlimited variable rates - a rate that can vary within a range. Say 6 cents to 30 cents. I can't think of any other product where we agree to pay any rate at all the vendor charges.

[oceangaia]

Originally Posted by LonghornHotspur

It would be a moral hazard to let these people out of their plans AFTER they willingly signed up.

That's exactly what will happen. All of us will be paying these bills.


Texas residents will not be burdened by "skyrocketing" energy bills following the deadly winter storm that caused widespread blackouts last week, Gov. Greg Abbott said.
Abbott announced on Sunday that he is addressing the "skyrocketing energy bills that resulted from a temporary spike in the energy market" with members of the legislature to make sure residents aren't held financially responsible.

As the state reels under one of the worst electricity outages in U.S. history, Abbott and members of the legislature will calculate the total cost of these bills and "find ways that the state can help reduce this burden."

In the meantime, the Public Utility Commission, at the direction of the governor, will temporarily restrict providers from issuing invoices to customers. It also issued a temporary moratorium on customer disconnections for nonpayment.



https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyl...s-winter-storm

[astrohip]

Originally Posted by oceangaia

There's a middle ground between fixed rates and unlimited variable rates - a rate that can vary within a range. Say 6 cents to 30 cents. I can't think of any other product where we agree to pay any rate at all the vendor charges.

I can't either. Yet that is exactly what they agreed to. Which is why I think it should be banned. In the future.

Originally Posted by oceangaia

That's exactly what will happen. All of us will be paying these bills.

So now all of us, you and me, get to foot the bill for these effing idiots.

At a minimum, they should go back as far as they've been on Griddy (say at least 12-18 months), and raise the past rates to average market. Then, and ONLY then should they start to reconcile the current charges. I don't want these people getting the lowest prices of the last two years, and then being forgiven the highest prices.

Absolute BS. Which is why we need to outlaw it. This will happen every time.

[foodyum]

Originally Posted by oceangaia

I know that. What I said is it shouldn't be allowed to happen. My opinion.

My opinion too but it does seem to be against the Texas ethos of free trade with little Govt oversight or regulations. It’s built in to the Texas DNA. Live by the sword, die by the sword.

[Failed Engineer]

We are one of those small subset of households that were on Griddy throughout the freeze and maintained power the entire time. I agree with those that say we shouldn't have any retroactive adjustment to our bills. I knew with eyes wide open what our exposure was during the storm and how badly we could be hit, but minimized usage as best we could. We only ran our heat as little as necessary to maintain some radiant heat in the attic for the pipes, unplugged everything we could, little TV and computer use (using phones for communication/entertainment), and used mostly used flashlights at night. We are looking at a $1000 February bill and we aren't complaining. We have a rather large, but energy efficient home that uses much less energy psf than some of these people with $5000+ bills.

Ultimately I think it goes back to the fact that many of these people signing up are un-informed or at best under-informed about the risks. At a minimum, I don't think anyone should be allowed to signup with a debit card or bank draft. I think most of those people in the most dire situations with Griddy are lower income who don't have a credit card to have on file and were having the bank account drafted. At least it's a way to protect those that have the most narrow of safety nets. Futhermore, we all know that those lower income households also live in the least energy efficient homes and apartments to compound the effect.

To Griddy's credit, they pushed out phone messages and emails almost immediately when they became aware of the emergency pricing to tell customers they would be well served to switch. At the time other many other providers were switching customers within 2 hours. I looked around and most of the companies offering switching wanted to lock in a contract and I wanted to keep Griddy after the freeze so I stayed put.

I wouldn't be opposed to the outright banning of Griddy type plans to protect the more vulnerable as has been suggested though. It's a massive hole to climb out of for the people it crushed most.

[astrohip]

Originally Posted by Failed Engineer

We are one of those small subset of households that were on Griddy throughout the freeze and maintained power the entire time. I agree with those that say we shouldn't have any retroactive adjustment to our bills. I knew with eyes wide open what our exposure was during the storm and how badly we could be hit, but minimized usage as best we could. We only ran our heat as little as necessary to maintain some radiant heat in the attic for the pipes, unplugged everything we could, little TV and computer use (using phones for communication/entertainment), and used mostly used flashlights at night. We are looking at a $1000 February bill and we aren't complaining. We have a rather large, but energy efficient home that uses much less energy psf than some of these people with $5000+ bills.

Ultimately I think it goes back to the fact that many of these people signing up are un-informed or at best under-informed about the risks. At a minimum, I don't think anyone should be allowed to signup with a debit card or bank draft. I think most of those people in the most dire situations with Griddy are lower income who don't have a credit card to have on file and were having the bank account drafted. At least it's a way to protect those that have the most narrow of safety nets. Furthermore, we all know that those lower income households also live in the least energy efficient homes and apartments to compound the effect.

To Griddy's credit, they pushed out phone messages and emails almost immediately when they became aware of the emergency pricing to tell customers they would be well served to switch. At the time other many other providers were switching customers within 2 hours. I looked around and most of the companies offering switching wanted to lock in a contract and I wanted to keep Griddy after the freeze so I stayed put.

I wouldn't be opposed to the outright banning of Griddy type plans to protect the more vulnerable as has been suggested though. It's a massive hole to climb out of for the people it crushed most.

Thanks for sharing this. Interesting insight.

[HookTheBrotherUp]

That company, Griddy, may go out of business after their customers switch. I'm not defending what they did, because they did not do anything wrong. People signed up willingly, the terms were clear, and Griddy did not expect the rates to go up like they did.

All around, a bad experience for all. But to those Griddy customers, they will be bailed out by FEMA, so I would not make too much of a fuss over it. As others have mentioned, people need to make sure they understand the consequences of the contracts they are signing.

If you can predict the future, I will give you my number to contact me directly.