What Went Wrong With Texas’s Main Electric Grid and Could It Have Been Prevented? (Houston: power lines, credit)

[oceangaia]

Originally Posted by foodyum

My opinion too but it does seem to be against the Texas ethos of free trade with little Govt oversight or regulations. It’s built in to the Texas DNA. Live by the sword, die by the sword.

I'll bet if people showed up at the doors of the CEO's homes with weapons they would want some government intervention...

[oceangaia]

Originally Posted by Failed Engineer

To Griddy's credit, they pushed out phone messages and emails almost immediately when they became aware of the emergency pricing to tell customers they would be well served to switch. At the time other many other providers were switching customers within 2 hours. I looked around and most of the companies offering switching wanted to lock in a contract and I wanted to keep Griddy after the freeze so I stayed put.

If I may ask, what is your "happy times" griddy rate and your typical usage?

[oceangaia]

Originally Posted by HookTheBrotherUp

That company, Griddy, may go out of business after their customers switch. I'm not defending what they did, because they did not do anything wrong. People signed up willingly, the terms were clear, and Griddy did not expect the rates to go up like they did.

All around, a bad experience for all. But to those Griddy customers, they will be bailed out by FEMA, so I would not make too much of a fuss over it. As others have mentioned, people need to make sure they understand the consequences of the contracts they are signing.

If you can predict the future, I will give you my number to contact me directly.

Were the terms clear? Were the risks adequately exposed? I don't know, just asking. The max rate of $9000/mwh might have been in big print on page 1 or in microscopic print buried in a wall of text on page 10.



Not everyone was born to be a lawyer, or even very smart. That's why we impose certain legal limitations and restrictions on what can be contracted.

[Jack Lance]

Originally Posted by Failed Engineer

We are one of those small subset of households that were on Griddy throughout the freeze and maintained power the entire time. I agree with those that say we shouldn't have any retroactive adjustment to our bills. I knew with eyes wide open what our exposure was during the storm and how badly we could be hit, but minimized usage as best we could. We only ran our heat as little as necessary to maintain some radiant heat in the attic for the pipes, unplugged everything we could, little TV and computer use (using phones for communication/entertainment), and used mostly used flashlights at night. We are looking at a $1000 February bill and we aren't complaining. We have a rather large, but energy efficient home that uses much less energy psf than some of these people with $5000+ bills.

Ultimately I think it goes back to the fact that many of these people signing up are un-informed or at best under-informed about the risks. At a minimum, I don't think anyone should be allowed to signup with a debit card or bank draft. I think most of those people in the most dire situations with Griddy are lower income who don't have a credit card to have on file and were having the bank account drafted. At least it's a way to protect those that have the most narrow of safety nets. Futhermore, we all know that those lower income households also live in the least energy efficient homes and apartments to compound the effect.

To Griddy's credit, they pushed out phone messages and emails almost immediately when they became aware of the emergency pricing to tell customers they would be well served to switch. At the time other many other providers were switching customers within 2 hours. I looked around and most of the companies offering switching wanted to lock in a contract and I wanted to keep Griddy after the freeze so I stayed put.

I wouldn't be opposed to the outright banning of Griddy type plans to protect the more vulnerable as has been suggested though. It's a massive hole to climb out of for the people it crushed most.

The problem I see with this situation is generators went down and it was the grid itself that malfunctioned driving those prices up. What would your bill have been if generation matched demand ? People make decisions based on ordinary circumstances.

Another question is if these generators were out did plans like Griddy really have the power to sell to begin with ? Was a fraud perpetrated upon these consumers by a wholesale power reseller that was selling power that it didn't have ?

In any case these plans are obviously flawed and can only be beneficial if the customer only uses them in mild weather months. If they switch and forget they will certainly lose any benefit, it's a game of weather roulette.

[astrohip]

Originally Posted by Jack Lance

The problem I see with this situation is generators went down and it was the grid itself that malfunctioned driving those prices up. What would your bill have been if generation matched demand ? People make decisions based on ordinary circumstances.

Another question is if these generators were out did plans like Griddy really have the power to sell to begin with ? Was a fraud perpetrated upon these consumers by a wholesale power reseller that was selling power that it didn't have ?

The gris didn't really malfunction. The grid is the wires, they were fine. When the generators went down, there wasn't enough power to fill the grid. So ERCOT forced each local distribution company (eg, Centerpoint in Houston, Bluebonnet Elec COOP in Brenham) to cut off some of their users (AKA rolling blackouts), to match supply & demand. In a sense, everything worked... except there wasn't enough supply. The rest of the system worked as designed.

So when we fell short of power, ERCOT sent out word for any and all power it could get. At any price it could get it, up to $9K. Griddy charges the highest (and lowest) price on the grid.

It was legit.

[resonator]

When the gov went to splitting billing from the providers it was to solve a problem. The problem was more companies needed to make political contributions to the state law makers.


What's weird is some cities have their natural gas on 3rd party billing and some have electric.
And places like San Antonio have none of that nonsense at all.


In Atlanta, GA it is considered by analysts to be a $6/month billing company surcharge over what the product price would be without this 'service'.



But of course this, third party billing, is a separate issue from the potential big bills. San Antonio is in a panic over them even though the city owns the gas/electric co.

[Jack Lance]

Originally Posted by astrohip

The gris didn't really malfunction. The grid is the wires, they were fine. When the generators went down, there wasn't enough power to fill the grid. So ERCOT forced each local distribution company (eg, Centerpoint in Houston, Bluebonnet Elec COOP in Brenham) to cut off some of their users (AKA rolling blackouts), to match supply & demand. In a sense, everything worked... except there wasn't enough supply. The rest of the system worked as designed.

So when we fell short of power, ERCOT sent out word for any and all power it could get. At any price it could get it, up to $9K. Griddy charges the highest (and lowest) price on the grid.

It was legit.

I think most people think of the Grid as the totality of the power generation and delivery system so lets please not split hairs. To say supply matched demand is a ridiculous notion, are you saying all those people in the dark and cold were not demanding electric power ? My lights were only out 5 hours but believe me I was still demanding electricity in those dark hours, there just wasn't any supply at any price for me.

This is one time I agree with Sylvester Turner, the state of Texas should pay those bills in excess of what the price would have been had there not been any loss of generation and a massive percentage of the demand in the state was blacked out creating a artificial shortage of power thus triggering those ridiculous rates.

Full disclosure I am on a fixed rate electric plan at around 10c kwh.

[astrohip]

Originally Posted by Jack Lance

To say supply matched demand is a ridiculous notion, are you saying all those people in the dark and cold were not demanding electric power ?

I worded it poorly. What I was saying is demand can't exceed supply in an electrical grid. That creates a brownout or blackout, that will trip the system and leave it in ruins. So when demand skyrockets over supply, they have to start cutting "demand" from the system. I don't mean demand like you & I want more juice. Cut demand like entire areas off the grid. It's not really reducing the demand of the end user. Its reducing the demand of the system, be eliminating us as end users.

The demand of the end users can be whatever it is. The demand of the system can't exceed the supply, or disaster.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nichola...h=3cf2cb54843f

I probably over-engineered my response.

[Jack Lance]

Originally Posted by astrohip

I worded it poorly. What I was saying is demand can't exceed supply in an electrical grid. That creates a brownout or blackout, that will trip the system and leave it in ruins. So when demand skyrockets over supply, they have to start cutting "demand" from the system. I don't mean demand like you & I want more juice. Cut demand like entire areas off the grid. It's not really reducing the demand of the end user. Its reducing the demand of the system, be eliminating us as end users.

The demand of the end users can be whatever it is. The demand of the system can't exceed the supply, or disaster.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nichola...h=3cf2cb54843f

I probably over-engineered my response.

astro, what about all those electricity retailers ? You don't think they're going to get bailed out because they had to pay those sky high rates to secure whatever supply there was, but could only charge limited amounts because their customers were smart enough to enter into fixed rate contracts ?

It's not going to be just stupid consumers begging for relief when this thing starts to shake out, electric retailers will be at the trough as well. BTW astro have you received your light bill yet ?

[astrohip]

Originally Posted by Jack Lance

astro, what about all those electricity retailers ? You don't think they're going to get bailed out because they had to pay those sky high rates to secure whatever supply there was, but could only charge limited amounts because their customers were smart enough to enter into fixed rate contracts ?

It's not going to be just stupid consumers begging for relief when this thing starts to shake out, electric retailers will be at the trough as well. BTW astro have you received your light bill yet ?

What does this have to do with my supply/demand reply?

The rates are a different subject. I have no idea who will and won't be bailed out. Above my pay grade.

I have a fixed rate contract. I never use a variable rate with elec. Far too risky, for too little reward/gain.