Buying a new car - and hate doing the dealer thing (Houston: live, price)

[Terr]

Originally Posted by gwarnecke

The chip shortage will pass, supply will ramp back up, and buyers will once again have room to negotiate.

The chip shortage is tricky. It is not strictly supply/demand. It is that the demand is there but the supply has to be fulfilled by obsolete fabs and there are fewer and fewer of them.

As far as I understand,the chip problem is due to the following:

1. Computer chips used in cars are not the most advanced. They can be much slower, much bigger and much less efficient than the most advanced ones.

2. Due to (1) above, the chips used are much older and much cheaper than the ones that the modern fabs are cranking out.

3. Because of that, only the older fabs are producing such chips, because they cannot produce the more advanced ones. It is not worth it, financially, for the more modern fabs to produce them.

4. Some of these older fabs closed down during the early Covid days, due to less demand. One (in Japan) burned to the ground in '21.

5. It is not worth it for anyone to build a new fab (fabs cost $billions) to produce these old, very low-profit-margin chips.

6. So, until the old fabs are *maybe* brought back into production and the Japanese one gets rebuilt - huge shortage of chips for cars.

[a_guerrajr]

TSMC is already working on a new plant in Arizona.
Rumor is Intel will get a nice kickback for also kicking it off.

But they take time to be built and also provide supply. Hence late 2024 / 2025 before it begins to show it's skin.

[Terr]

Originally Posted by a_guerrajr

TSMC is already working on a new plant in Arizona.
Rumor is Intel will get a nice kickback for also kicking it off.

But they take time to be built and also provide supply. Hence late 2024 / 2025 before it begins to show it's skin.

Thing is, building a new fab is EXPENSIVE, you just don't need the latest equipment to produce big and slow automotive chips, so having the brand spanking new fab with the latest in machinery produce old-style chips that cost pennies is not financially sound.

[Htown2013]

Originally Posted by Terr

1. Costco doesn't do Toyota around Houston
2. Several dealerships (well almost all) refused to name price over the phone.

Oh, OK so you specifically want a Toyota. I'd just email all the Toyota dealerships in the Houston area (use a new email address if you'd like), and politely but firmly negotiate over email. Get them to supply a price, including OTD. Same process should still function but with less room to negotiate (e.g. negotiate down to MSRP these crazy days).

Are you also trading in or just purchasing?

[Terr]

Originally Posted by Htown2013

Oh, OK so you specifically want a Toyota. I'd just email all the Toyota dealerships in the Houston area (use a new email address if you'd like), and politely but firmly negotiate over email. Get them to supply a price, including OTD. Same process should still function but with less room to negotiate (e.g. negotiate down to MSRP these crazy days).

Are you also trading in or just purchasing?

I got a couple of dealerships to actually give me an OTD price - and picked one that was the lowest and actually signed an agreement to buy for the car I wanted (I do have to wait a couple of weeks for it) - see the OP. Not sure if MSRP or a couple hundred $ above it - it is hard to tell, but not much more.

Others absolutely refused to talk prices on the phone. Outright "you have to come in" requirement. I actually did come in (couldn't do a test drive without that) and it was immensely annoying.

[Even Further]

Last time we negotiated at the dealer on our MDX, it was a 4 hour ordeal. Yes it was worth it IMO, but was super annoying. Next time I'm packing a lunch or snacks. We tried buying used at Texas Direct/Vroom, but we could go brand new for the same price or a little cheaper. This was all pre-covid too.

[oceangaia]

Originally Posted by sonic0boom

Yeah, my last 3 cars were purchased using one of car buying programs -- one with Costco and the other with my credit card. I submitted what i was looking for and then every dealership (which was most in the area) just sent me their offers. And even then there was room to negotiate further since the request basically went to their internet sales. Got the invoice ahead of time, showed up, signed, and was out of there! Now, the last time i did this, it was right after Harvey and no one was budging on the prices, which didn't surprise me due to demand, but I got them to throw in some of the dealer-installed accessories and all the manufacturer rebates still applied.

Supply is way worse now than then, they are not negotiating price at all. At least not Toyota.

[oceangaia]

Originally Posted by Terr

The market is nuts right now. At least for Toyota (which is what I was looking for) there are no rebates, I was told by a reliable guy that something like 80% of Rav4 Hybrids that are allocated are sold weeks before they come into the dealership, obviously at quite a premium to MSRP, and it is almost mid Jan, and there are no Rav4 22s to be found. I am told that they will start showing up maybe in March.

Oh and Costco here in Houston apparently has no relationships with any Toyota dealerships.

Same for Tacoma. And there should be a law against having a vehicle on the website saying In Stock and with a VIN then when you inquire it is really In Transit and someone already has put money down on it.

I click on a website button to Get Today's Price and check preferred contact Email and what happens? Instant and endless phone calls followed by emails introducing themselves and how eager they are to help and wanting to set up a test drive. Everything but the Price.


I'm thinking about buying out of state. There are some states that require them to show the actual window sticker so you can see what opotions have been added and how much.

[Terr]

Originally Posted by oceangaia

I click on a website button to Get Today's Price and check preferred contact Email and what happens? Instant and endless phone calls followed by emails introducing themselves and how eager they are to help and wanting to set up a test drive. Everything but the Price.

Call Joe Myers Toyota. Ask to talk to Mike Gundy. He's the one that I talked to, a pleasure to deal with.

[oceangaia]

Originally Posted by Terr

Here's a funny thing. I am sitting at this dealership today. As I said, I hate the whole procedure. I already called the other guy who gave me an X out of the door price but he still needed to check some things, I didn't sign anything, so I try this dealer, it's close to home. These guys, on same exact model etc., start at X+4K. I say no. They say X+3K. X+2K. I say listen, I have the X price from someone. But because you guys are nearby, convenience, etc. I am willing to go X+500. They say X+1200. I finally say X+700 (cuz it is a round #). They stick to theirs. I really wanted to just leave but you know how it is, it seems rude to do so. So after another 15 min, they don't come down to X+700, I say thank you very much, I leave.

So since the other guy *could* do X (I wound up paying more, because he found me a '22, not '21, and better model with the features I wanted), that (to me) means that they could have easily gone down to X+700. But they just wouldn't do it.

Never worry about "being rude" by sticking to your price. I wouldn't have given them that much time. When they said X+4K I would have said I'm out and left.