Areas in Houston that are similar to Southern Orange County, California (Plano: apartments, crime rate)

[Johnhw222]

The biggest difference in Houston and S. Cali is one has water the other doesn’t.

[LocalPlanner]

Originally Posted by DabOnEm

Houston is more mixed economically due to no zoning and huge amounts of unincorporated areas (equal to the City of Houston's size). This creates a stretched thin police force (Houston has one of the lower cops per citizen in the US).



Bad guys travel to commit crimes in every city. Houstons reason for more widespread crime are unique to Houston. No zoning, unincorporated areas, low number of police.

No zoning is an unquestionable benefit. You sound like you want to use zoning to intentionally segregate / exclude by income levels through government force. That's something that happens in California, the northeast and other backwards places. We don't want that here.

[ParaguaneroSwag]

Originally Posted by LocalPlanner

No zoning is an unquestionable benefit. You sound like you want to use zoning to intentionally segregate / exclude by income levels through government force. That's something that happens in California, the northeast and other backwards places. We don't want that here.

Everything has its pros and cons. Literally everything. You're only highlighting the pros here. I'll respect your opinion, but no, I don't agree that having low levels of land use regulations end up with bigger pros than cons.

I highly doubt DabOnEm's reason for preferring a more uniform zoning ordinance is specifically to further segregate income levels. I would imagine its to make better use of infrastructure and green space.

[LocalPlanner]

Originally Posted by ParaguaneroSwag

Everything has its pros and cons. Literally everything. You're only highlighting the pros here. I'll respect your opinion, but no, I don't agree that having low levels of land use regulations end up with bigger pros than cons.

I highly doubt DabOnEm's reason for preferring a more uniform zoning ordinance is specifically to further segregate income levels. I would imagine its to make better use of infrastructure and green space.

As someone who was educated in urban planning, I fully acknowledge that there's tradeoffs to everything. But, I have come to strongly to believe that the development regulations that are most beneficial are apart from land use zoning; they don't in any way require land use zoning to be implemented. Much of the planning world has come to agree with this, but affluent citizens tend to hold onto zoning tightly, so they have to work with it.

And DOE's assertion came entirely within a discussion of what allegedly contributes to an allegedly wider distribution of crime in the Houston area vs. other metros. So, I disagree with your interpretation of his/her comment.

[DabOnEm]

Originally Posted by ParaguaneroSwag

Everything has its pros and cons. Literally everything. You're only highlighting the pros here. I'll respect your opinion, but no, I don't agree that having low levels of land use regulations end up with bigger pros than cons.

I highly doubt DabOnEm's reason for preferring a more uniform zoning ordinance is specifically to further segregate income levels. I would imagine its to make better use of infrastructure and green space.

Exactly, better use of infrastructure and urban design. You can still have low income housing nearby well to do areas with zoning. LA is literally like this. South Orange County is just the outlier in the LA area.

Originally Posted by LocalPlanner

As someone who was educated in urban planning, I fully acknowledge that there's tradeoffs to everything. But, I have come to strongly to believe that the development regulations that are most beneficial are apart from land use zoning; they don't in any way require land use zoning to be implemented. Much of the planning world has come to agree with this, but affluent citizens tend to hold onto zoning tightly, so they have to work with it.

And DOE's assertion came entirely within a discussion of what allegedly contributes to an allegedly wider distribution of crime in the Houston area vs. other metros. So, I disagree with your interpretation of his/her comment.

So you disagree that Houston's layout contributes to its more widespread crime than other metros? Why does DFW overall have considerably less violent crime?

[LocalPlanner]

Originally Posted by DabOnEm

Exactly, better use of infrastructure and urban design. You can still have low income housing nearby well to do areas with zoning. LA is literally like this. South Orange County is just the outlier in the LA area.




So you disagree that Houston's layout contributes to its more widespread crime than other metros? Why does DFW overall have considerably less violent crime?

I first want to see irrefutable proof that crime of various sorts is more widely distributed in Houston than the DFW area before agreeing or disagreeing. This could easily be just a matter of perception because folks might assume that a big contiguous area of upscale suburbia is for whatever reason less subject to crime than more mixed suburbia.

[DabOnEm]

Originally Posted by LocalPlanner

I first want to see irrefutable proof that crime of various sorts is more widely distributed in Houston than the DFW area before agreeing or disagreeing. This could easily be just a matter of perception because folks might assume that a big contiguous area of upscale suburbia is for whatever reason less subject to crime than more mixed suburbia.

It's 2022, just google it. Look for crime maps. There are several out there which show what I'm talking about like this one.

Houston:https://crimegrade.org/property-crime-houston-tx-metro/
DFW: https://crimegrade.org/property-crime-dallas-tx-metro/

[usc619]

Originally Posted by Htown2013

This does NOT seem normal if you've lived elsewhere in the USA - the crime seems more like a third world country.

Bingo! My point exactly.

Originally Posted by LocalPlanner

No zoning is an unquestionable benefit. You sound like you want to use zoning to intentionally segregate / exclude by income levels through government force. That's something that happens in California, the northeast and other backwards places. We don't want that here.

BS, Houston's no zoning is a joke. You're always using the "Poor Card" when trying to justify this garbage.

Originally Posted by DabOnEm

It's 2022, just google it. Look for crime maps. There are several out there which show what I'm talking about like this one.

Houston:https://crimegrade.org/property-crime-houston-tx-metro/
DFW: https://crimegrade.org/property-crime-dallas-tx-metro/

Facts

[DabOnEm]

Originally Posted by usc619

Bingo! My point exactly.

BS, Houston's no zoning is a joke. You're always using the "Poor Card" when trying to justify this garbage.

Facts

Agreed, you can't always just use working class/poor people as a reason why people dislike no zoning. That's more a cop out. What interesting about the map is, once you click it to be able to move around, you can go up to The Woodlands and see it's not in the same safe bastion as similar DFW suburbs.

[ParaguaneroSwag]

Originally Posted by LocalPlanner

As someone who was educated in urban planning, I fully acknowledge that there's tradeoffs to everything. But, I have come to strongly to believe that the development regulations that are most beneficial are apart from land use zoning; they don't in any way require land use zoning to be implemented. Much of the planning world has come to agree with this, but affluent citizens tend to hold onto zoning tightly, so they have to work with it.

And DOE's assertion came entirely within a discussion of what allegedly contributes to an allegedly wider distribution of crime in the Houston area vs. other metros. So, I disagree with your interpretation of his/her comment.

Being that you have studied urban planning and I haven't, there's obviously going to be lots that you know that I don't. But not everyone in the same field agrees just like people of any study. From what it seems, that good majority of urban planners disagree with your take on the pros outdoing the cons.

Originally Posted by DabOnEm

Agreed, you can't always just use working class/poor people as a reason why people dislike no zoning. That's more a cop out. What interesting about the map is, once you click it to be able to move around, you can go up to The Woodlands and see it's not in the same safe bastion as similar DFW suburbs.

I would even argue that there are long term benefits that uniform zoning ordinances can bring to lower income areas. Such as making the best of land use to address the needs of those communities.