People Say Houston's ugly but not cities like Chicago, NYC, etc? (Dallas: mold, drivers license)
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The argument was that Houston sacrificed aesthetics for convenience when they decided to construct feeder roads on all major freeways. Apparently, they make the city look cheap with all the billboards and shops on the side.
No lies detected in this, even if it makes you angry that people don't agree with you or share your opinion about how beautiful you think Houston is. Maybe you were in Houston too long and grew accustomed to how it looks, but I can definitely see how people from other places find the city to be ugly. And I haven't just heard this from the "urbanist snobs" that you have such a disdain for, but from other sprawling sunbelt cities such as Los Angeles, Phoenix, Dallas, or Atlanta as well.
Those cities have a lot of the same 'ugliness' that Houston has, but it's a lot more hidden in many instances, mostly with soundwalls, trees/landscaping, or zoning laws. I know you live in LA, so you know first-hand just how dirty and ugly that city can be in many parts. Zooming along the freeway, people don't see it as much, so people don't know. Probably explains why so many first-time visitors are let down by Los Angeles because outside the Westside and the Hills, it can be pretty ugly in many parts. A lot of the Southern California suburbs seem to have a lot of zoning and setbacks and focus on aesthetics to keep them from looking slummy. I always thought Cerritos and Torrance got their their planning right without being overwhelming and stepfordish like the South OC suburbs.
The most "Houston" looking freeway landscape in the DFW area is 183 by DFW Airport, and it's relatively mild compared to say, the North Freeway. Flying into IAH or Hobby and driving along Interstate 45 is not the best introduction to the city for visitors, so I understand how that can leave a bad impression. I agree that there are beautiful neighborhoods and nice parts of Houston and the city is improving quite a bit, but people don't exactly see that from the freeway getting from point A to point B, and a lot of people judge cities with these superficial standards. Again, as a Houstonian, this may anger you based on all your ranting in this thread, but it is what it is.
Feeder roads are convenient, but its not the end of the world if they aren't there and millions of people in places outside of Texas seem to survive just fine without them.
So? You can't seem to get it in your head that service station convenience is not the topic of this thread.
And even in this matter, I think your point is debatable. As I said, I've lived in 7 states and didn't find it more difficult to purchase gasoline in those other states than I did during my years in Houston. Was this true for you when you lived in other states?
So, you can't get in your head that the feeder/retail setup we have that people like you find in such disdain is a trade off for convenience?
The city would look much better without any roads, right? If someone said roads are ugly, would it not make sense to say it would make the city practically unlivable?
When I lived in Austin, I found it very difficult and inconvenient to get gas when driving in Mopac. I used to have to spend weeks in LA for work, and I found it extremely difficult getting gas when on those freeways.
I guess living in seven states didn't allow you to learn the meaning of convenience.
So, you can't get in your head that the feeder/retail setup we have that people like you find in such disdain is a trade off for convenience?
The city would look much better without any roads, right? If someone said roads are ugly, would it not make sense to say it would make the city practically unlivable?
When I lived in Austin, I found it very difficult and inconvenient to get gas when driving in Mopac. I used to have to spend weeks in LA for work, and I found it extremely difficult getting gas when on those freeways.
I guess living in seven states didn't allow you to learn the meaning of convenience.
What exactly/specifically was so difficult about finding gas stations in LA compared to Houston? There are gas stations at almost every exit off most of the freeways, and many of them have tall signage that can be seen from the freeway as well. It really isn't any more convenient to turn off on a road to go to a gas station than going on a frontage road. Just different from what you're accustomed to.
What I did find annoying is that there is no highway signage for road services in urban areas in California, unlike Texas. Although in this day and age of GPS and smartphones, it's almost a moot point.
No lies detected in this, even if it makes you angry that people don't agree with you or share your opinion about how beautiful you think Houston is. Maybe you were in Houston too long and grew accustomed to how it looks, but I can definitely see how people from other places find the city to be ugly. And I haven't just heard this from the "urbanist snobs" that you have such a disdain for, but from other sprawling sunbelt cities such as Los Angeles, Phoenix, Dallas, or Atlanta as well.
Those cities have a lot of the same 'ugliness' that Houston has, but it's a lot more hidden in many instances, mostly with soundwalls, trees/landscaping, or zoning laws. I know you live in LA, so you know first-hand just how dirty and ugly that city can be in many parts. Zooming along the freeway, people don't see it as much, so people don't know. Probably explains why so many first-time visitors are let down by Los Angeles because outside the Westside and the Hills, it can be pretty ugly in many parts. A lot of the Southern California suburbs seem to have a lot of zoning and setbacks and focus on aesthetics to keep them from looking slummy. I always thought Cerritos and Torrance got their their planning right without being overwhelming and stepfordish like the South OC suburbs.
The most "Houston" looking freeway landscape in the DFW area is 183 by DFW Airport, and it's relatively mild compared to say, the North Freeway. Flying into IAH or Hobby and driving along Interstate 45 is not the best introduction to the city for visitors, so I understand how that can leave a bad impression. I agree that there are beautiful neighborhoods and nice parts of Houston and the city is improving quite a bit, but people don't exactly see that from the freeway getting from point A to point B, and a lot of people judge cities with these superficial standards. Again, as a Houstonian, this may anger you based on all your ranting in this thread, but it is what it is.
Feeder roads are convenient, but its not the end of the world if they aren't there and millions of people in places outside of Texas seem to survive just fine without them.
Ah, Biscuit head, another fellow detractor just like Gunion, here to twist my words to make it seem as though I'm boosting for Houston when I never said that Houston was beautiful. I even explicitly stated that a decade ago you'd have a case for Houston being ugly but that the vast improvements around the city especially at the core have done wonders. I referred to the city as "nice looking" not beautiful and certainly not as nice as Chicago. I wanted to point out that the way Houston has developed and is developing is for practical purposes not to please urbanist snobs. There is also a double standard because when many of us points out blights in other cities they're excused but when we point out several nice looking areas of town, they're discounted as being few and far between.
This is just another case of you trying desperately to counter any perceived blind pride in Texas. I don't know what happened to you in this state or why you get off on making sure we know how much our city and state don't actually match up but it's getting annoying and predictable. I was pretty much trying to be reasonable by saying that to deny the improvements the city had made to make up for its lack of aesthetic appeal is just hating plain and simple. It's practically irredeemable according to you guys and I think that's just a strong bias on y'all part. Just give it up. Y'all just had a bad time, someone prolly said something offensive and now you see it as your duty to bring Texas boosters down a peg or something cuz this is getting weird.
Most of us in here were trying to be reasonable and compromise by saying that Houston had just improved not that it's actually as beautiful as Boston or SF.
What exactly/specifically was so difficult about finding gas stations in LA compared to Houston? There are gas stations at almost every exit off most of the freeways, and many of them have tall signage that can be seen from the freeway as well. It really isn't any more convenient to turn off on a road to go to a gas station than going on a frontage road. Just different from what you're accustomed to.
What I did find annoying is that there is no highway signage for road services in urban areas in California, unlike Texas. Although in this day and age of GPS and smartphones, it's almost a moot point.
This is beyond the pale. Houston's freeways are probably some of the most navigable and convenient systems in the county. Now you guys have beef with that too? Even an extra second of convinience is worth it to some of us. Going to Long Beach exiting the freeways is a bit of a pain. I wouldn't exit off the 405 and think it's a piece of cake to get back on. It's not the hardest thing to do but feeders are much more convenient. How can this even be denied?
The feeder argument is so spurious and incredibly picky.
Ah, Biscuit head, another fellow detractor just like Gunion, here to twist my words to make it seem as though I'm boosting for Houston when I never said that Houston was beautiful. I even explicitly stated that a decade ago you'd have a case for Houston being ugly but that the vast improvements around the city especially at the core have done wonders. I referred to the city as "nice looking" not beautiful and certainly not as nice as Chicago. I wanted to point out that the way Houston has developed and is developing is for practical purposes not to please urbanist snobs. There is also a double standard because when many of us points out blights in other cities they're excused but when we point out several nice looking areas of town, they're discounted as being few and far between.
This is just another case of you trying desperately to counter any perceived blind pride in Texas. I don't know what happened to you in this state or why you get off on making sure we know how much our city and state don't actually match up but it's getting annoying and predictable. I was pretty much trying to be reasonable by saying that to deny the improvements the city had made to make up for its lack of aesthetic appeal is just hating plain and simple. It's practically irredeemable according to you guys and I think that's just a strong bias on y'all part. Just give it up. Y'all just had a bad time, someone prolly said something offensive and now you see it as your duty to bring Texas boosters down a peg or something cuz this is getting weird.
Most of us in here were trying to be reasonable and compromise by saying that Houston had just improved not that it's actually as beautiful as Boston or SF.
LOL, now who's the one twisting words? Talk about projecting your own insecurities about what people think of Houston.
While you're going off on yet another one of your repetitive diatribes, I was somewhat siding with you if you read carefully. I was just saying I can certainly understand why outsiders would consider Houston "ugly," even if it is for superficial reasons such as the much-maligned frontage roads plus I mentioned this wasn't exclusive from 'urbanist snobs,' but people from sprawling sunbelt cities like Atlanta, Los Angeles, Dallas, or Phoenix have said the same thing too, even though they have no room to talk because they have their share of ugly, blighted neighborhoods and those traits are not exclusive to Houston (except for the lack of zoning). I even addressed the fact that Houston has made many improvements to the aesthetics in the city.
PS - I have relatives in Missouri City, Pearland, SW Houston, and the 3rd Ward and I have great times whenever I'm there, so no one 'hurt' me, and I don't recall hating on anything.
LOL, now who's the one twisting words? Talk about projecting your own insecurities about what people think of Houston.
While you're going off on yet another one of your repetitive diatribes, I was somewhat siding with you if you read carefully. I was just saying I can certainly understand why outsiders would consider Houston "ugly," even if it is for superficial reasons such as the much-maligned frontage roads plus I mentioned this wasn't exclusive from 'urbanist snobs,' but people from sprawling sunbelt cities like Atlanta, Los Angeles, Dallas, or Phoenix have said the same thing too, even though they have no room to talk because they have their share of ugly, blighted neighborhoods and those traits are not exclusive to Houston (except for the lack of zoning). I even addressed the fact that Houston has made many improvements to the aesthetics in the city.
PS - I have relatives in Missouri City, Pearland, SW Houston, and the 3rd Ward and I have great times whenever I'm there, so no one 'hurt' me, and I don't recall hating on anything.
This isn't projecting. This is being a bit peeved at how you turned my posts into some sort of blind boosting by insisting that I was calling the city beautiful and that I was barking at detractors. I wasn't. I was trying to be reasonable with them by saying that yes, they're somewhat right but have outdated views because the vast improvements that have been made over the decade have leveled some of the lack of aesthetic appeal. That was the gist of my point but you turned it into me accepting nothing but calling the city beautiful and accusing me of ranting about it.
This is beyond the pale. Houston's freeways are probably some of the most navigable and convenient systems in the county. Now you guys have beef with that too? Even an extra second of convinience is worth it to some of us. Going to Long Beach exiting the freeways is a bit of a pain. I wouldn't exit off the 405 and think it's a piece of cake to get back on. It's not the hardest thing to do but feeders are much more convenient. How can this even be denied?
The feeder argument is so spurious and incredibly picky.
You seriously need to calm down and realize that not everyone thinks exactly like you, nor are they required to. I personally do not have any 'beef' with frontage roads, so stop being so childish and misinterpreting what I was saying and attempting to create arguments I didn't even make in the first place.
I've lived and driven in areas that have frontage roads as well, and they have their advantages and disadvantages like any other exit/entrance onto a freeway. I was specifically asking about how is it more difficult to find a gas station that is immediately visible from an exit compared to one that is on a frontage road? Yes, there are some weird aspects to a lot of the exits in Southern California, and even some that are mere turnoffs to side streets rather than onto the main road itself (like the exit from the 405 to Long Beach Blvd for example) that aren't as intuitive or as convenient as the frontage road concept. I even mentioned my annoyance about how California doesn't sign its services for upcoming exits in urban areas the same way Texas does in my previous posts, so I wasn't even criticizing frontage roads at all. And if you have a Smartphone with updated GPS, it's relatively easy to find a gas station with or without a frontage road.
I do agree that other parts of the country could definitely use turnarounds
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