Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
No lies detected in this, even if it makes you angry that people don't agree with you or share your opinion about how beautiful you think Houston is. Maybe you were in Houston too long and grew accustomed to how it looks, but I can definitely see how people from other places find the city to be ugly. And I haven't just heard this from the "urbanist snobs" that you have such a disdain for, but from other sprawling sunbelt cities such as Los Angeles, Phoenix, Dallas, or Atlanta as well.
Those cities have a lot of the same 'ugliness' that Houston has, but it's a lot more hidden in many instances, mostly with soundwalls, trees/landscaping, or zoning laws. I know you live in LA, so you know first-hand just how dirty and ugly that city can be in many parts. Zooming along the freeway, people don't see it as much, so people don't know. Probably explains why so many first-time visitors are let down by Los Angeles because outside the Westside and the Hills, it can be pretty ugly in many parts. A lot of the Southern California suburbs seem to have a lot of zoning and setbacks and focus on aesthetics to keep them from looking slummy. I always thought Cerritos and Torrance got their their planning right without being overwhelming and stepfordish like the South OC suburbs.
The most "Houston" looking freeway landscape in the DFW area is 183 by DFW Airport, and it's relatively mild compared to say, the North Freeway. Flying into IAH or Hobby and driving along Interstate 45 is not the best introduction to the city for visitors, so I understand how that can leave a bad impression. I agree that there are beautiful neighborhoods and nice parts of Houston and the city is improving quite a bit, but people don't exactly see that from the freeway getting from point A to point B, and a lot of people judge cities with these superficial standards. Again, as a Houstonian, this may anger you based on all your ranting in this thread, but it is what it is.
Feeder roads are convenient, but its not the end of the world if they aren't there and millions of people in places outside of Texas seem to survive just fine without them.
Radio thinks that outside of the Westside, Houston looks better than LA. I say he hasn't ventured out to the other parts of LA County enough. Show me areas in Houston that look as beautiful as Pasadena or even San Dimas. The natural landscape and topography with purple mountain backdrop (even along the freeways) can't be matched by the flatness of Houston. LA can put up crap by the freeways and it still would look decent due to the natural landscape, whereas Houston has to really rely on architecture and planning to achieve its beauty. LA was made with the tourist in mind. Houston is built for its residents. It is rare for me to hear outsiders describe Houston as beautiful...nice but rarely beautiful. It's an unfair comparison, imo. Houston should be compared to other flat cities. The only thing it has in common with LA is the sprawl. But hey, everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Radio thinks that outside of the Westside, Houston looks better than LA. I say he hasn't ventured out to the other parts of LA County enough. Show me areas in Houston that look as beautiful as Pasadena or even San Dimas. The natural landscape and topography with purple mountain backdrop (even along the freeways) can't be matched by the flatness of Houston. LA can put up crap by the freeways and it still would look decent due to the natural landscape, whereas Houston has to really rely on architecture and planning to achieve its beauty. LA was made with the tourist in mind. Houston is built for its residents. It is rare for me to hear outsiders describe Houston as beautiful...nice but rarely beautiful. It's an unfair comparison, imo. Houston should be compared to other flat cities. The only thing it has in common with LA is the sprawl. But hey, everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Is Pasadena, LA? I meant the actual city of Los Angeles; East of La Brea. When the sun isn't shining some of it can look pretty junky. And I think the whole point of this was to talk about the actual city landscape not the topography? I think that we made the natural landscape a non-issue. What can Houston but rely on it's planning and architectural development for aesthetic appeal? And my entire point WAS that Houston is a nice looking improving city on the rise, not that it's beautiful? Is this all you guys hear when someone sticks up for Houston? Is this bias so strong that it's just a trend now, because the improvements Houston has made have helped out the city break a bit out of this ugly mold you guys still seem to hold.
Radio, I responded to your gross misinterpretation of what I said about frontage roads on the last page. I guess you have no response. But I do agree much of LA proper outside of the Westside and the hills leaves a lot to be desired from an architectural standpoint.
You seriously need to calm down and realize that not everyone thinks exactly like you, nor are they required to. I personally do not have any 'beef' with frontage roads, so stop being so childish and misinterpreting what I was saying and attempting to create arguments I didn't even make in the first place.
I've lived and driven in areas that have frontage roads as well, and they have their advantages and disadvantages like any other exit/entrance onto a freeway. I was specifically asking about how is it more difficult to find a gas station that is immediately visible from an exit compared to one that is on a frontage road? Yes, there are some weird aspects to a lot of the exits in Southern California, and even some that are mere turnoffs to side streets rather than onto the main road itself (like the exit from the 405 to Long Beach Blvd for example) that aren't as intuitive or as convenient as the frontage road concept. I even mentioned my annoyance about how California doesn't sign its services for upcoming exits in urban areas the same way Texas does in my previous posts, so I wasn't even criticizing frontage roads at all. And if you have a Smartphone with updated GPS, it's relatively easy to find a gas station with or without a frontage road.
I do agree that other parts of the country could definitely use turnarounds
Dr. Phil, please stop analyzing all my posts as a distraction from the lack of arguments in your posts. Especially when you try to turn around what you've just said. I said it was beyond the pale to suggest that getting off a freeway and going off into a road and then finding your way back, sometimes on those hard to navigate twisting LA freeway entrances is somehow only a bit less convenient than getting off a feeder, getting gas, and then getting right back on the freeway. It isn't just "different to us", it's more convenient. We are used to better system, aesthetic appeal be damned IMO.
I get that not everyone may share my opinion, and you are of the opinion that just because yours differs that it somehow is validated by merely being an opinion. But you're on a Houston forum and this is a debate discussion so if I find something that might be wrong or misguided then accept that too and instead of freaking out insisting that I am attacking you. You're wrong to me on this matter, that's it. It doesn't matter if you disagree with me, this isn't a participation grade, I've driven on both LA and Houston freeways, and having the feeders makes driving much more convenient. That is the only part of the post I disagreed with.
Is Pasadena, LA? I meant the actual city of Los Angeles; East of La Brea. When the sun isn't shining some of it can look pretty junky. And I think the whole point of this was to talk about the actual city landscape not the topography? I think that we made the natural landscape a non-issue. What can Houston but rely on it's planning and architectural development for aesthetic appeal? And my entire point WAS that Houston is a nice looking improving city on the rise, not that it's beautiful? Is this all you guys hear when someone sticks up for Houston? Is this bias so strong that it's just a trend now, because the improvements Houston has made have helped out the city break a bit out of this ugly mold you guys still seem to hold.
You can't just talk about city landscape without taking into consideration the topography. Bunker Hill wouldn't look the same if it was just flat. San Francisco wouldn't look as charming without its hills. Some of Frank Lloyd Wright's homes look great because they took advantage of the topography. Due to its flatness, Houston can only rely on architecture development for esthetic appeal. That's exactly the point why it's unfair to compare it to LA or other cities with rolling hills.
I'm not bashing Houston. I live here. It's a great place for residents...
Radio, I responded to your gross misinterpretation of what I said about frontage roads on the last page. I guess you have no response. But I do agree much of LA proper outside of the Westside and the hills leaves a lot to be desired from an architectural standpoint.
Biscuit, this all began with your gross misrepresentation of me barking at detractors insisting that I would accept nothing but calling Houston "beautiful".
But this happens all the time, anyone who finds anything positive or wants to acknowledge the tremendous growth the city and the state have made over the last decade is shot down by a few who generally just hate the city and the state. Just have a bias against it and see no compromise but then turn around and say that many of us are boosting. That many of us are projecting insecurities, have blind pride or just being iconoclastic for not admitting what the rest of the mainstream culture acknowledges; that the city and state suck. Even if we are being reasonable and saying yes, I could see what you're saying but the view is outdated because XYZ and instead the response is "why are you attacking my opinion, I have a right to it and you have to realize that other people think differently than you", as if that validates an outdated, clearly biased and erroneous opinion someone may have of the city/state.
You can't just talk about city landscape without taking into consideration the topography. Bunker Hill wouldn't look the same if it was just flat. San Francisco wouldn't look as charming without its hills. Some of Frank Lloyd Wright's homes look great because they took advantage of the topography. Due to its flatness, Houston can only rely on architecture development for esthetic appeal. That's exactly the point why it's unfair to compare it to LA or other cities with rolling hills.
I'm not bashing Houston. I live here. It's a great place for residents...
I can agree with that. But the architecture of SF isn't just bland though. If it were a flat city it would still be impressive. From the freeway the skyline looks like a mini NYC. It's a modern marvel of the US with or without the hills. The topography is just what sends it over the edge into no competition territory. And it's true there is no competition between SF and Houston.
The only thing I was saying is that the trajectory for Houston is up considering its improvements on appeal. I was just saying that most people would consider it "nice" not ugly based on those improvements. They like the shiny, new development because they think yes, it is nice for residents. I can agree with that.
Dr. Phil, please stop analyzing all my posts as a distraction from the lack of arguments in your posts. Especially when you try to turn around what you've just said. I said it was beyond the pale to suggest that getting off a freeway and going off into a road and then finding your way back, sometimes on those hard to navigate twisting LA freeway entrances is somehow only a bit less convenient than getting off a feeder, getting gas, and then getting right back on the freeway. It isn't just "different to us", it's more convenient. We are used to better system, aesthetic appeal be damned IMO.
I get that not everyone may share my opinion, and you are of the opinion that just because yours differs that it somehow is validated by merely being an opinion. But you're on a Houston forum and this is a debate discussion so if I find something that might be wrong or misguided then accept that too and instead of freaking out insisting that I am attacking you. You're wrong to me on this matter, that's it. It doesn't matter if you disagree with me, this isn't a participation grade, I've driven on both LA and Houston freeways, and having the feeders makes driving much more convenient. That is the only part of the post I disagreed with.
To me, the convenience of finding a gas station on a frontage road is subjective, as is the convenience of finding one on other types exits/entrance setups on freeways. I've met a few dummies who didn't understand the frontage road system (and I think they should have their drivers licenses revoked). It's convenient to you because you grew up there and that's what you're accustomed to. I've also driven on both LA and Houston freeways, so I understand how both have their quirks that take getting used to from novices.
I wasn't looking for validation of my opinion, if anything, it seems as if you come to the Texas forums to seek validation from Texans to insulate yourself from your misery of living in California, and go nuts when someone on here doesn't agree with you - saying that it's 'beyond the pale' is really over-dramatic. I only disagreed that frontage Roads are the "best" or most convenient setup and that it has its advantages and disadvantages like anything else. Yet again, you misinterpreted what I said as some sort of perceived slight against Houston when that was not the case.
Last edited by biscuit_head; 10-11-2016 at 10:44 AM..
Biscuit, this all began with your gross misrepresentation of me barking at detractors insisting that I would accept nothing but calling Houston "beautiful".
But this happens all the time, anyone who finds anything positive or wants to acknowledge the tremendous growth the city and the state have made over the last decade is shot down by a few who generally just hate the city and the state. Just have a bias against it and see no compromise but then turn around and say that many of us are boosting. That many of us are projecting insecurities, have blind pride or just being iconoclastic for not admitting what the rest of the mainstream culture acknowledges; that the city and state suck. Even if we are being reasonable and saying yes, I could see what you're saying but the view is outdated because XYZ and instead the response is "why are you attacking my opinion, I have a right to it and you have to realize that other people think differently than you", as if that validates an outdated, clearly biased and erroneous opinion someone may have of the city/state.
That's how most of these threads end up usually.
Well take that up with the posters who said that and whine to them about it. I said nothing about you being a booster or a homer because I do think you're mostly objective, plus I never said anything about how Houston or Texas "suck" since I don't believe that. I admit I was being somewhat sarcastic about you saying that Houston was beautiful and not accepting other opinions, but I guess you misinterpreted that. Guess I've been living on the East Coast too long and forgot that a lot of y'all southerners don't like sarcasm from us evil coastal elites ...
Anyway, I'm done. You have your opinion, I have mine and we're going in circles and you're trying to be condescending about what constitutes a 'debate'. I have a chicken pesto salad calling my name and that's more important than going back and forth with you, good day.
Last edited by biscuit_head; 10-11-2016 at 10:52 AM..
To me, the convenience of finding a gas station on a frontage road is subjective, as is the convenience of finding one on other types exits/entrance setups on freeways. I've met a few dummies who didn't understand the frontage road system (and I think they should have their drivers licenses revoked). It's convenient to you because you grew up there and that's what you're accustomed to. I've also driven on both LA and Houston freeways, so I understand how both have their quirks that take getting used to from novices.
I wasn't looking for validation of my opinion, if anything, it seems as if you come to the Texas forums to seek validation from Texans to insulate yourself from your misery living in California, and go nuts when someone on here doesn't agree with you - saying that it's 'beyond the pale' is really over-dramatic. I only disagreed that frontage Roads are the "best" or most convenient setup and that it has its advantages and disadvantages like anything else. Yet again, you misinterpreted what I said as some sort of perceived slight against Houston when that was not the case.
How can forums insulate any misery? I come to the forums to get updates on Texas and see what improvements have been made. Most of the stuff I say is to compromise not validate, to see the positives in the growing state, yet you take it as boosting, projecting insecurities, seeking validation, or whatever else you choose to analyze. Just you having a different opinion doesn't mean that I am supposed to applaud you for it, if someone doesn't agree with me I ask for arguments and I counter if I think they're still wrong. That is debate. You're too sensitive then. You think that just by having a differing opinion that it should automatically be respected by not questioning it. Feeder roads aren't convenient because I am used to them. Any tourist who comes to visit Houston for the first time will find the freeway system a bit more efficient. That isn't just boosting, or seeking validation, or the inability to understand that different people have different opinions, this is from looking at the feeder system and noticing that gee its a bit more convenient to get off the freeway, get gas or a burger and hop back on. How is that so controversial to you?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
