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Comparing cost of living is irrelevant unless you are comparing apples to apples. It is certainly conceivable that one could have a similar cost of living on the UWS as Houston, but one won't get the same size of house or apartment for the cost. It also depends on what one is spending their money on. My wife and I drive cars that we paid $15k each new for and will drive them for ten years unless the wheels fall off first. We live in a modest SW Houston neighborhood where 2400 sf homes go for $150k.
For our lifestyle, it is a no brainer to live here in terms of saving money from Los Angeles where I am from, or NYC where my wife is from. But if one has to have an expensive car (if they own one) and needs to be in a hip, pricey neighborhood, I can see how expenses would not differ all that much between Houston and NYC depending on the size of the apartment one lives in. Keep in mind there is no judgement there of how folks live their lives and spend their money. It's only a point of reference as to comparing COL in any given pair of cities.
Thank You. I think that many people on here seem to forget that. Maybe they should post what Neighborhood they live in and the price of their home. Because many people have said that it's much better living here than where they came from. He saw a 2 story house with a front and back yard, and he looked like he had seen a hot woman walk by naked, haha. I told him it was pretty normal for Houston. He was truly shocked for several minutes after just looking at the many houses.
Check this out ... Houston is in the top ten of this listing of America's most expensive cities. For the rest of the country that reads how cheap Houston (and Texas) is and how the job market is good - it might give pause for thought before packing up and moving with no job lined up (or not even any prospects).
I'm one of the ones who has been saying it for years.
I never understood why everyone was under the impression Houston was insanely cheap. The burbs are; but that's not Houston.
We're living on Central Park West right now after 3 years in West U and Braes Heights on dollar for dollar (not adjusted) the exact same income. I'd argue we have a significantly higher standard of living here than we did in Houston on the same money. Shopping at the gourmet groceries in Houston cost us almost exactly what we're paying on the Upper West Side. Eating out costs almost exactly the same (MARGINALLY more here). Rent is obviously more, but we pay almost nothing for transportation (cars and related expenses were a full 12% of our pre-tax income in Houston, less than 1.5% here). Even after you factor in state/local taxes, like I said, I'd say we're living a much better life in NYC than Houston on the exact same cash.
If Houston were so cheap and our dollar stretched so much more, we might not have left.
As to the "potential muggers" comment about public transportation; you watch way too many movies.
Just to follow up on my other postings, I think ZDG illustrates an important point, which is how one lives has a big impact on comparing cost of living. Again, I do not make any judgement here on whether ZDG's lifestyle is "good" or "bad," rather I think his experience shows that working class folks or those who choose to live on a modest budget with less dining out and cheaper grocery shopping will benefit more from living in a place like Houston.
Just to follow up on my other postings, I think ZDG illustrates an important point, which is how one lives has a big impact on comparing cost of living. Again, I do not make any judgement here on whether ZDG's lifestyle is "good" or "bad," rather I think his experience shows that working class folks or those who choose to live on a modest budget with less dining out and cheaper grocery shopping will benefit more from living in a place like Houston.
I absolutely agree.
I think there's probably an income level where you go from "stretching your dollars to maximize" to more of a "we've got this money now, let's spend it reasonably on things we can obviously afford." I'm not saying either is wrong or right or good or bad or whatever; just saying I think that's probably the case.
It could be that we've been fortunate to make what we make (we're damn far from rich, but certainly have no complaints about our income) and so we'd be living in higher end neighborhoods where ever we were. That all being said, the more-cars-than-drivers, inside-the-loop lifestyle we lived in Houston was barely cheaper once everything was netted than the lifestyle we live in NYC.
Do we have a 3100 sf house here? Hell no. Don't want one. (Seriously.) Frankly, we got tired of cleaning rooms we didn't even go in to. But why does everyone get so hung up on the size of the house? Give me a tiny place with a trillion things to do within a block of that house than 3 acre lot with a 20 minute drive to the nearest non-chain restaurant.
Back to the point; I've got a spreadsheet here showing housing, car and car-related, insurance, food, entertainment, and kid's tuition expenses in our life in Houston and current life in Manhattan and it's a difference of 0.9%. Once you throw in our new income taxes, it jumps to 6.2%.
I think if you asked 100 Houstonians, 100 of them would laugh if you told them that all non-tax expenses in Manhattan would be roughly the same as all non-tax expenses in Braes Heights (we're not even talking about River Oaks here). And I'm here to tell you; that's exactly the case.
Just to follow up on my other postings, I think ZDG illustrates an important point, which is how one lives has a big impact on comparing cost of living. Again, I do not make any judgement here on whether ZDG's lifestyle is "good" or "bad," rather I think his experience shows that working class folks or those who choose to live on a modest budget with less dining out and cheaper grocery shopping will benefit more from living in a place like Houston.
The survey discussed here (per the original article) "measured the prices of the same basket of goods in 253 of the world's cities. The basket is composed of over 200 products, representative of executive spending patterns and including everything from rent for a luxury apartment to the cost of a fast-food hamburger. Mercer chose a sampling of U.S. cities to measure, the ten most expensive of which are listed here."
Note this methodology: the "basket" included rent for a luxury apartment that a (presumably global, since the survey was international) executive would rent.
Houston provides a relatively good bang for the buck for middle/upper middle class families who's (typically two wager earners) make in the $50-100K range. For this income in Houston one can get a large, newer home in a pleasant outlying suburban neighborhood with pretty good public schools. Yes, commute times -- by car in traffic, because public transport is very limited -- can be long. Yes, these neighborhoods are outside of the city center. And, yes, they are pretty much cookie-cutter houses on a small -- 1/3 acre or less -- lot. Still, in many ways this presents a better value than can be found in many major urban areas where people of similar incomes must often sacrifice home size/comfort/amenities (and/or school quality.
But these pleasant but ultimately bland houses in the 'burbs aren't the target for high level executives. Middle level managers, lower prestige professionals, and small business owners? Sure. But truly high flying executives are not gonna be where the houses are cheap in Houston. They are going to live in the the "right" places. And in Houston, those places -- the Memorial Villages, West U./Museum, River Oaks, Tanglewood/Galleria -- aren't cheap at all. In fact, they're quite expensive. And in that way, Houston's presence on the list doesn't surprise me. The survey's basket included high end housing, not middle tier stuff.
Example: If I'm a, say, big time scholar/academic and am offered a position at, say, Rice U., I'm not liviing in Kingwood, Cinco Ranch, or any other of the countless nice but generic corporate suburban developments that offer cheap houses. No, instead I look in West U., Southampton, and the Museum Area. And those places aren't cheap.
There is no way you are. NYC is many, many times more expensive than Houston & that is a fact.
It's really funny how you feel compelled to tell someone how they are able to live their life based on your in depth knowledge as opposed to their actuall experience. We bow to thee almighty omniscient one. Take a back seat buddy and chill out.
Are these people on crack? I'm a Houston native and have lived in NYC, Long Island, San Antonio and now Las Vegas. Groceries are soooo much cheaper the cost of living in general in Houston is so much cheaper in Houston compared to anywhere else I have lived or traveled, I would say the only cons as far as $$$ go re: Houston is commuting i.e. no real good public transportation options if you live in the burbs and real estate taxes are higher than a lot of places but then again you can get a mansion for a buck 50 in Houston compared to other cities so what are they talking about exactly? But then again gasoline is cheaper than most other parts of the country as well... did you se it hit past the $5.00 mark per gallon last summer? We did out west.... and groceries...I cannot believe how expensive a gallon of milk cost in other cities.... or hmm NYC 8 yeas ago.... hmmmm $2600.00 per month for a 1 bedroom 600 sf apartment ....yeah...that was groovy.... ( and that was w/ a $500 monthly discount cause it was by ground zero) So how on earth again is Houston in the top 10 most expensive cities? Heck one of the best things I thought about Houston was the cost of living was great compared to other major cities!
I just re read some posts and I guess if one lived in a higher end neighborhood like West-U or River oaks then the differences would not be noticed as much, but for those of us that do not make 6 figures a year , I could not afford to live in NY unless I moved out into the less "desirable" boroughs other than Manhattan, and even that would be a stretch and at that point I would be worried about the quality of life and my personal safety. (obviously when I lived in NYC I did not live alone no way I could have done that by myself on an office manager salary)
Ha I remember my sister who is a smoker came to visit me in NYC in 2002 and about had a cow when she had to pay $8.00 for a pack of cigarettes, who knows how much they costs now...
Even here in Vegas I have to be very conscious of were the best grocery deals are ( NOT Albertsons...what a joke!! )
Yeah, I suppose it should be made clearer that I appear to be having a different discussion than those who are posting about living outside the city center in Houston and NYC. Again, to be abundantly clear, I'm not saying one is better/worse than the other; I'm just saying I think this discussion can be summed up this way:
People that live outside the loop in Houston feel that Houston is extremely cheap and has no business on this list of expensive cities. Those of us that lived only inside the city center are not the least bit surprised and wonder what took so long. I guess the conclusion you can draw there is...the costs of living in the city center are more indicative of the city as a whole than the costs of living outside the city center (since Houston clearly DID make this list, coming in at #8).
To take it a step further, I guess the best way to say the underlying point is this: it's a lot easier to live on less than $100,000 in the Houston METRO AREA than it is to live on $100,000 in, say, the NYC METRO AREA. As far as being cheaper, there's obviously a gap that squeezes to almost nothing once you reach a certain income level. Our 6 digit income in Houston didn't buy us NEARLY the amenities it does in Manhattan. If we were still living on $48,000/yr, that would be completely flipped and I would have never left "Houston" (the metro area).
Well, generally, the people who are outside of the loop who are less willing to live in areas that are transitional and/or surrounded by areas that are transitional. In some ways they're the people who are paying...good schools and the peace of mind that comes with believing virtually nothing can go wrong in your neighborhood, all on top of what can be a nasty commute cannot be very cheap. Not that there aren't big houses in the loop, but many of my neighbors could have cared less about having a big house--they were willing to make the same sacrafices that people in other cities make (though the other areas tend to cost much more) to live close in (ie. the small apartment, less eating out, renting and no yard). Living in Montrose, I was surrounded by the gentrification process: the people who could afford to live in the huge houses with "character" and those of us who couldn't afford it any more than the outer loopers shall we say; So yes, if you want to live in the loop, you might not want to have kids or want a lot of space, but in comparison, for the same place I lived in Montrose, the price would have been astronomical in many other cities.
Last edited by theSUBlime; 10-19-2009 at 12:26 PM..
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