WARNING: gas stations selling low octane

[SteveArmy]

Originally Posted by xavier1774

There are many cars that will have issue if you run less than 92 octane in them. Especially high compression, turbo, and super-charged engines.

not true. california has 91 octane max (poor guys) so if your car was sold in CA then it has no problems running 91 octane

[EasilyAmused]

Originally Posted by Kenpar

Which will be my next vehicle. I'm sure this type of tampering with the fuel can screw up a Twin Turbo Audi. This makes me very weary now.

Get to know your local gas station owner, full service, to avoid this. Only fill up there. It takes pre-planning, but it's well worth it. If that's the car you take on long distances trips...well..you're on your own there.

[Kenpar]

Originally Posted by EasilyAmused

Get to know your local gas station owner, full service, to avoid this. Only fill up there. It takes pre-planning, but it's well worth it. If that's the car you take on long distances trips...well..you're on your own there.

Your not making me feel better, haha.

[texas7]

Originally Posted by xavier1774

Handi-Stop is the LLC/business entity that is the franchisee that runs many of these Chevrons, Shells, Exxons, etc. There is not a Handi Stop place. I am also in industry. I can tell you when there were stations that were corporate owned, these problems did not exist....but in today's world of trying to compete with the grocery stores, Walmarts, sams, costco, etc. that sell gasoline...the margins were so thin that many, if not all, the majors left the corporate owned model and just franchised them out. There are many cars that will have issue if you run less than 92 octane in them. Especially high compression, turbo, and super-charged engines.

Actually they are not franchises. They are distributor served stations. They do not pay franchise fees. The only fees they pay to the major oil company is for the fuel they purchase from a terminal. That is it - zip. They then resell that fuel at their stations at a price keeping within market so as to be competitive. When they don't do business correctly, then the major company can come in and debrand and no longer be associated with that distributor. One independent company (such as Gulshan in this particular news story) owns the stations and requests to be branded by one of the majors. Those majors then have contracts in place to allow this distributor to brand the station with their brand - they have to meeting all branding requirements, appearance, pumps, tank integrity, etc. They are then allowed to purchase that brand (and that brand only) for fuel at their station. If they put unbranded in those tanks, don't keep up the appearance and standards (such as high octane and regular in correct tanks) ... the major company then voids that contract and debrands their name from that distributor. There were also cases of the driver deciding on his own to put unbranded in those tanks because that is what he had in his truck and nobody was the wiser until an integrity check came along -- and when that is discovered -- that distributor can no longer use that hauling company who is then denied access at the fuel terminals. It was quite an interesting experience and I gained a greater understanding of fuel stations than I ever imagined.

[texas7]

Originally Posted by Kenpar

Which will be my next vehicle. I'm sure this type of tampering with the fuel can screw up a Twin Turbo Audi. This makes me very weary now.

If this is something you are concerned about with your car -- while it may be a pain -- keep your gas receipts for "x" amount of time. When you have those receipts and can show where you buy your gas (if you buy regularly at one place) then you can prove fault if any when octane isn't correct. Also good for whenever you get water in the tank but that happens immediately - so you'll know where you got it even if someplace random and if you have the receipt - they can pay damages.

A relative got water in his tank (out of state) while traveling - he had the receipt so he knew exactly where he had gotten it and he was reimbursed for his auto repairs.

[Grunn]

Originally Posted by desertsun41

Today they do not despite what some people say unless you have a really high performance car. So diluting 93 octane with 87 octane was a much bigger issue back then. Today 91 octane is about the highest you can buy so the spread is not that big a deal. The big deal is that the consumer is being cheated.

Bull****, my bike has a high compression ratio (13.3:1) and will potentially suffer engine damage with the kind of crap these robbers are serving up in place of WHAT I PAY FOR. Never mind what it will do to my turbocharged/supercharged cars tuned for high octane fuel.
I have no problem paying more for my fuel but it pisses me off when some toerag decides to rob me and put my cars at risk. These thieves should be sued and closed down for this.

[tstone]

With modern-day knock sensors, I doubt your engine will sustain any damage. The issue is like desertsun says... you got cheated but worse yet, you won't be getting the highest performance out of it. Most engines nowadays step down the timing curve when cheap gas flows to avoid piston/valve face damage. At least they had this feature on 'crappy' Chrysler V6s 10+ years ago... I would expect your high-tech motor to have something at least as modern.

As far as full service goes, wow- that's a throwback. In Oregon they pumped gas for me but I wouldn't call it full serv, more like government beauracracy creating $8/hr jobs. They didn't wash the windows or check tire pressure. I actually haven't seen true full-serv in years, and I don't ever recall seeing it in Texas.

[xavier1774]

Almost all cars sold in California have slightly different emission kits. Or the cars meet all 50 state emission standards. the biggest hit will be performance.
for example a 500 HP twin-turbo car will probably produce 495-510HP at the crank. @ 93+ Octane. with 91 or less you will loose 5-10% in HP. However, many hi performance cars do not recommend anything less that 92+ (except in high altitudes).

Originally Posted by SteveArmy

not true. california has 91 octane max (poor guys) so if your car was sold in CA then it has no problems running 91 octane

[SteveArmy]

Originally Posted by xavier1774

Almost all cars sold in California have slightly different emission kits. Or the cars meet all 50 state emission standards. the biggest hit will be performance.
for example a 500 HP twin-turbo car will probably produce 495-510HP at the crank. @ 93+ Octane. with 91 or less you will loose 5-10% in HP. However, many hi performance cars do not recommend anything less that 92+ (except in high altitudes).

Again this is not true atleast for programming. I've tuned and competed with Audi turbo cars and I exchange stock and modified ECUs with guys from California. The truth is all stock setups are dumbed down from the factory or in many cases you or noone is getting the xxx advertized HP at all. If cars were built at max potential, tuners will be out of business
tstone says the truth about all, especially Bosch produced ECUs. Theyre really smart these computers have you guys heard or 'limp mode'? thats when the car detects something is off and will go down to ~30% performance. I do have a race motor that redlines at 10k rpm which does not have a high tech brain and it would suck if I got 89 octane in there

[CoderGeek]

Originally Posted by xavier1774

The culprit owns many gas stations and all brands around the houston area. (Shell, Exxon, Chevron, etc.) play it safe buy gas from wally world, sams, costco, or others that are not a franchise...

Too bad this scum bucket will probably just get a slap on the wrist...must be nice living in a multi-million dollar house by stealing...too bad we can deport this guy.


Records show gas stations pump out low-octane gas from premium pumps | khou.com | News

I remember this was a problem in Pennsylvania when I lived there. Just wanted to throw that out there that this may not be just a local issue, in case you go on long road trips.