Arizona's Immigration Law for Houston (Canadian, Earth: lawyers, professionals, lawsuits)

[wpmeads]

Originally Posted by jluke65780

I think it's a little unfair to call an organization racist due to being guilty by association. The fact that people believe this law is racially motivated is crazy. You know America is doomed when people feel that enforcing the law is unconstitutional.

Although I can see where your coming from, I think Rachel's point was that FAIR has had a long history being "associated" with some racist people throughout their history, including the chairmen and founder of the FAIR. Besides, after the interview, Rachel and her team did some fact checking and found out the majority of what Dan Stein denied (such as giving money to Virginia Abernathy the "racial separatist," his comments in a New York Post story, etc.) he was lying. Also, if you don't keep up with the Rachel Maddow Show, her team does a VERY good job at researching and fact checking information. So when someone comes on her show, and accuses her of being "miss informed," their usually lying.

Anyway, here's an earlier story she did over the "papers please" law and some of the people that where behind it including FAIR.

The Rachel Maddow Show - Racist roots of Arizona's immigration law

Granted, I doubt that everyone who voted for the AZ law had the same kind of racial motivations, much less the people that support it, but they're definitely are some people who where behind this law with racist motivations.

[blkgiraffe]

Originally Posted by cjester

Are you saying to just get rid of the 4th amendment because it's useless?
IMO the amendment does help to some extent sway some jurors to the defendant's side. However I am against a law that legally gives the right for the police to profile a race of people and force them to carry their birth certificate or their Nat papers.
This law is specifically directed to citizens who look Mexican or American Indian. (That’s the race of Hispanics that abound in AZ). IMO I don't care if people are racists, as long as it is not out in the open and supported by a written law.

What am I saying is regardless of the 4th amendment; racial profiling will exist and nowhere in the Arizona Immigration Law does it say Racially profiling is acceptable.

[ssgmun5000]

Houston should join the boycott of Arizona like other cities are starting to do.

[glorplaxy]

Originally Posted by Vicman

Tell that to the State of Arizona and the State of Texas.

Whether they or told or not, it does not make sense that Hispanic is a race when there are black, white, and even Asian hispanics around the world. Ethnicity, ethnicity, ethnicity...

[mirjaja]

As an immigrant myself, I can say that every type of visa I have ever held had big ol' text on it that said that I must carry the visa and photo id on my person at all times to prove my status.

I have no problem at all with Arizona trying to do what the Federal govt has on the books but is not enforcing.

[Sampaguita]

Originally Posted by mirjaja

As an immigrant myself, I can say that every type of visa I have ever held had big ol' text on it that said that I must carry the visa and photo id on my person at all times to prove my status.

I have no problem at all with Arizona trying to do what the Federal govt has on the books but is not enforcing.

Did you or do you carry your green card at all times?

I became a naturalized citizen years ago but never carried my green card around (from 3yrs - 18 yrs) and I'm pretty sure my parents didn't either for fear of losing the cards.

For those of us who are naturalized citizens (and may not look like your "average" American) - are we someday going to have to carry around our passports or naturalized citizenship papers to prove our legal status? I've been detained several times crossing into Canada or Mexico WITH A US PASSPORT simply because I was not born in this country while my US-born travel companions breezed on through. It's not a great feeling to know that although I'd been a voting, tax-paying & responsible US citizen for as long as or longer than my colleagues, I was given "special" treatment for simply not being born here.

We're going to trust LEO's to not use racial profiling? I think that goes against human nature. The Bellaire PD incident is a good example. After 9/11, I was racial profiling weekly as I got on my next flight for work wondering if that guy wearing a middle-eastern headdress might be packing a detonating device while being racially profiled myself by TSA for extra screening. My white boss? No. He would just have to wait for me (while arguing with TSA that I wasn't a terrorist - just that I was born in a country with Al-Qaida ties - he didn't much help my case).

I'm all for tightening up on illegal immigration; there's a LEGAL way to do things - many of us/our parents did! But, I wonder how effective a law this really is going to be to combat illegal immigration. Where does it stop? We've got a big ol' immigration mess on our hands that should have been handled better decades ago. I love being an American but I sometimes wonder at our collective intelligence when it comes to big issues that we can't seem to resolve but other countries have.

[Houston3]

Originally Posted by ssgmun5000

Houston should join the boycott of Arizona like other cities are starting to do.

I'm joining the boycott against LA...

[SteveArmy]

you have to be really ugly to be detained, or worry about being detained in the future

[cjester]

Originally Posted by Sampaguita

Did you or do you carry your green card at all times?

I became a naturalized citizen years ago but never carried my green card around (from 3yrs - 18 yrs) and I'm pretty sure my parents didn't either for fear of losing the cards.

For those of us who are naturalized citizens (and may not look like your "average" American) - are we someday going to have to carry around our passports or naturalized citizenship papers to prove our legal status? I've been detained several times crossing into Canada or Mexico WITH A US PASSPORT simply because I was not born in this country while my US-born travel companions breezed on through. It's not a great feeling to know that although I'd been a voting, tax-paying & responsible US citizen for as long as or longer than my colleagues, I was given "special" treatment for simply not being born here.

We're going to trust LEO's to not use racial profiling? I think that goes against human nature. The Bellaire PD incident is a good example. After 9/11, I was racial profiling weekly as I got on my next flight for work wondering if that guy wearing a middle-eastern headdress might be packing a detonating device while being racially profiled myself by TSA for extra screening. My white boss? No. He would just have to wait for me (while arguing with TSA he didn't much help my case).
.

Every point that you have made is true and valid. Imagine trying to get a duplicate green card from the immigration office or worse yet try getting a copy of your naturalization certificate. I know a friend who lost or misplaced those documents. It took the INS more than six months and with mistakes added to them. They are so inept and slow many times worse than the post office.

But that's not the issue, the problem is that it obviously sends a negative message to the person who is being hassled and a feeling of superiority to the others who are not being hassled.

[mirjaja]

Originally Posted by Sampaguita

Did you or do you carry your green card at all times?
Do I carry my GC at all times - you bet I do. Before, when I was on student visas and H1B's - I carried a photocopy of my original documents with me.

I became a naturalized citizen years ago but never carried my green card around (from 3yrs - 18 yrs) and I'm pretty sure my parents didn't either for fear of losing the cards.

For those of us who are naturalized citizens (and may not look like your "average" American) - are we someday going to have to carry around our passports or naturalized citizenship papers to prove our legal status? I've been detained several times crossing into Canada or Mexico WITH A US PASSPORT simply because I was not born in this country while my US-born travel companions breezed on through. It's not a great feeling to know that although I'd been a voting, tax-paying & responsible US citizen for as long as or longer than my colleagues, I was given "special" treatment for simply not being born here.

If you were detained crossing into Can or Mex, you were dealing with the immigration authorities in those persepective countries. You would not have dealt with American authorities until you were returning into the US. I am not familiar with Mexican border legalities, but I do know that Canada and the US have several different bilateral agreements that allow citizens of each country to pass relatively easily between each country for short periods of time. Anyone not born in either country is subject to closer scruting. My father is british, and he always got an incredible hassle when we came into the US. Now, if you are from a country that has muslim extremist ties - I can fully understand that they might not waive you through as quickly as your American born boss. Simple law-of-averages would dictate that people that represent your demographic or profile might be more apt to hold animosity towards the US, or be more likely to hold extremist views than a 50 yr old business man born and raised in Iowa. Canadians are now subject to more scruting because extremists have used lax Canadian borders and immigration policies as a way to enter the US illegally.

We're going to trust LEO's to not use racial profiling? I think that goes against human nature. The Bellaire PD incident is a good example. After 9/11, I was racial profiling weekly as I got on my next flight for work wondering if that guy wearing a middle-eastern headdress might be packing a detonating device while being racially profiled myself by TSA for extra screening. My white boss? No. He would just have to wait for me (while arguing with TSA that I wasn't a terrorist - just that I was born in a country with Al-Qaida ties - he didn't much help my case).

I'm all for tightening up on illegal immigration; there's a LEGAL way to do things - many of us/our parents did! But, I wonder how effective a law this really is going to be to combat illegal immigration. Where does it stop? We've got a big ol' immigration mess on our hands that should have been handled better decades ago. I love being an American but I sometimes wonder at our collective intelligence when it comes to big issues that we can't seem to resolve but other countries have.

I agree that legal immigration should be easier for qualified people, and tougher for people with little to no skill sets that would benefit the US. I also think that several implementations might stop the onslaught of illegal immigration:
1) flat tax - everyone should pay to play
2) limit the amount of funds that can be wired out of the country
3) limit access to social services for legal immigrants for a period of 3 yrs. Stop access to social services for illegals.
4) if an illegal is caught commiting a crime. they should be deported, they should not spend tax payer dollars to incarcerate them (~1/3 of prisoners are illegal).
5) Get caught driving a vehicle without insurance or valid plates/stickers & you are illegal. They should hold you so that your family can pay a massive fine, which includes all of the licensing and insurance costs for a 12 month period. Get caught doing it twice - deported (~20-25% of vehicles in Texas are uninsured -- which raises liability insurance for everyone)
6) you should have to show your passport, or birth certificate and photo ID at all voting stations
7) English should be made the national language. When the massive wave(s) of immigrants have come here at various points in history, hey assimilated into society. They learned english and embraced their new country. All government services & documents should be performed/printed in english only - it would be a huge savings to tax payers.