Bridgestreet Hoodlums (Huntsville, Douglas: movers, felon, schools)

[ionlife]

Originally Posted by DvlsAdvc8

Yep, both were C students [
That said, I can't think of any Kerry-isms and Kerry wasn't President of the United States.

Thank goodness for that!

[chucksnee]

Originally Posted by DvlsAdvc8

Back on topic:

While I am a gun owner myself, I dunno how useful a CPP is in this situation. Admittedly, I'm not up on AL gun law yet, but in VA, you're not even permitted to brandish the weapon unless you have a clear, unavoidable threat to your life. A rowdy, intimidating bunch of people in a parking lot doesn't qualify. After you've scared them away you can be charged with brandishing. Even if they're physically violent, you must first choose to avoid/withdraw/retreat. Its similar to the old case of the gun failing to be an answer to the fist. A fist fight isn't considered a deadly threat.

IMO, the only place the legal use of a gun is realistically going to be useful, is in defending yourself in your home. In a public situation where someone decides to come at you with a deadly threat you have no way to avoid (which is typically required to legally draw a pistol) - its probably too late to reach for your gun.

Anyone know the law in AL in reference to brandishing a firearm? I'd be interested to know how it is different from VA and I haven't found an answer online.

I'll look up the law for ya.....

However, your definition of the VA law is wide open......what constitutes physical violence....a motion towards you...it appeared that I was going to be hit....

If someone is coming at me and there is NO way to avoid it, I still want that added measure of protection.....

This is why I shoot my pistol from my non-dominant hand, from a kneeling position and attempt anything other than a fully extended arm position.....

Anyway I'm not saying your wrong by no means...

[HB2HSV]

In this case, I believe it is SAFER if Devil does not carry his gun

1) He doesn't put in the time to train

2) He doesn't have the mind set of "shoot to kill", but instead it is "shoot to scare people"

3) His hand will be shaking like leaves, you wouldn't want his bullets to wonder and hit innocent bystanders

4) He believe that there are no bad guys, they are only "product of environment" in which the society as a whole is responsible for them becoming violent in the first place

5) He blames these all on the G.W. for cutting off welfare so a whole segment of society became "dis-enfranchised" and the angers they show toward him is only a reflection of G.W. Bush's doing.

[chucksnee]

Here are some interesting Florida laws.....and stats.....for Florida.....

Just looking at these stats...VA is much more strict than FL, if you can shoot a guy after a car accident and have the court throw out the case.....

Gun Control

[ionlife]

I just know that if I pull my gun, I better be prepared to breath, aim and shoot--to incapacitate -- permanently. Otherwise, maybe just turn, run and call the cops on my cell phone while spritzing mace.

[chucksnee]

Originally Posted by ionlife

I just know that if I pull my gun, I better be prepared to breath, aim and shoot--to incapacitate -- permanently. Otherwise, maybe just turn, run and call the cops on my cell phone while spritzing mace.

You know I just the other day I seen a news article on FOX, 2 guys went up to a house and started yelling...we're the FBI, let us in, and while they were doing that they had a crow bar trying to break in....the owners said who are you, when the owner looked out and seen the crow bar....he fired a warning shot....those 2 guys fled faster than lightning....

The whole point (IN MY OWN OPINION) is that most people do not have a weapon....and they know that (the person trying to rob you) Sooooooooo if more people start having CPP (Concealed weapons permit (CWP)) then the robber's will start saying.....hummmmmmmmmmm I wonder if that next person I rob has a weapon...............

[ionlife]

Two words: crimson grip. That'll scare them good based on TV and Movie land.

[DvlsAdvc8]

Originally Posted by chucksnee

I'll look up the law for ya.....

However, your definition of the VA law is wide open......what constitutes physical violence....a motion towards you...it appeared that I was going to be hit....

If someone is coming at me and there is NO way to avoid it, I still want that added measure of protection.....

This is why I shoot my pistol from my non-dominant hand, from a kneeling position and attempt anything other than a fully extended arm position.....

Anyway I'm not saying your wrong by no means...

I took an NRA class in Virginia on handgun safety and applicable laws. Seriously, I was surprised just how limited the circumstances where in which you were legally permitted to pull your weapon.

You could very well be attacked hand-to-hand, and get your arse kicked and still not be legally permitted to pull your gun in VA. A fist isn't considered life threatening. Brandishing prosecutions aren't uncommon.

Things change a little when you start talking about a group jumping you hand-to-hand, but again if it can be shown that you had an opportunity to escape and instead chose to "make a stand" and pull your weapon - again, you'll be charged with brandishing.

Not saying its right or wrong... just relating the law in VA. Basically, the only circumstances you're permitted to draw in VA are those in which you're already at a major disadvantage: i.e. criminal has a gun already pulled on you. In that case, according the class instructor - you have to make a critical judgement about whether you're better off just obeying and playing the odds (the odds being in favor of the criminal not wanting to kill you anyway) or escalating the situation.

The major point was that when you draw, it is assumed you intend to kill someone, and death isn't the punishment we've deemed appropriate to robbery so drawing a firearm is looked at very critically. Just an aside, but this particular instructor favored open carry for this very reason - a concealed weapon doesn't deter. One on your hip just might.

While a quick search doesn't yield much of anything particularly informative for Alabama (I don't even know if open carry is legal here), I get a bunch of hits for virginia. This one sounds legit and fits what I recall: http://www.virginia1774.org/Page5.html and http://www.virginia1774.org/Page6.html

There is a recklessness-a wanton disregard of humanity and social duty in taking or endeavoring to take, the life of a fellow-being, in order to save one's self from a comparatively slight wrong, which is essentially wicked, and the law abhors. You may not kill, because you cannot otherwise effect your object, although the object sought to be effected is right. You can only kill to save life or limb, or prevent a great crime, or to accomplish a necessary public duty." See, also, 1 Bishop on New C. L., secs. 839, 841, 850.

The principles governing a plea of self-defense are well-established. Self-defense is an affirmative defense to a charge of murder, and in making such a plea, a "defendant implicitly admits the killing was intentional and assumes the burden of introducing evidence of justification or excuse that raises a reasonable doubt in the minds of the jurors." McGhee v. Commonwealth, 219 Va. 560, 562, 248 S.E.2d 808, 810 (1978). The "bare fear" of serious bodily injury, or even death, however well- grounded, will not justify the taking of human life.

"...Thus, . . . [one] who expects to be attacked should first employ the means in his power to avert the necessity of self-defence, and, until he has done this, his right of self-defence does not arise." Hash v. Commonwealth, 88 Va. 172, 192, 13 S.E. 398, 405 (1891).

"...Under these facts, we hold, therefore, that it was not "necessary" for Barbosa to use deadly force to avert the perceived impending "gang beating." The fact that he was surrounded by Serna and his friends and that Serna "bumped into his gun," stating he was not afraid, does not constitute an "overt act indicative of imminent danger." See Vlastaris v. Commonwealth, 164 Va. 647, 651-52, 178 S.E. 775, 776-77 (1935) (holding that accused's fear for his life was without foundation because victim made no overt act at the time of the shooting). "

Drawing and firing is a lot stickier than I think most people imagine. Although, again, I have no idea yet what flies here in Bama.

[DvlsAdvc8]

Originally Posted by HB2HSV

In this case, I believe it is SAFER if Devil does not carry his gun

1) He doesn't put in the time to train

2) He doesn't have the mind set of "shoot to kill", but instead it is "shoot to scare people"

3) His hand will be shaking like leaves, you wouldn't want his bullets to wonder and hit innocent bystanders

4) He believe that there are no bad guys, they are only "product of environment" in which the society as a whole is responsible for them becoming violent in the first place

5) He blames these all on the G.W. for cutting off welfare so a whole segment of society became "dis-enfranchised" and the angers they show toward him is only a reflection of G.W. Bush's doing.

What on earth makes you think I'm untrained? Because I'm a liberal? lol

I was in the Marine Corps (Reserve; Wilmington DE) and am an Expert marksman. I've taken several safety/legal issues classes as a civilian, and participated in shooting competitions. My initial choice of major in college was criminal justice (later switching to pre-law, before finally changing colleges entirely and geting a CS degree).

Just because I understand poverty issues and work for social justice doesn't mean I can't defend myself.

I believe in the second amendment just as ardently as I do the first. Even more, I think that training should be required of gun owners. I don't care who legally owns a gun so long as they know how to use it and know the law related to its use.

[DvlsAdvc8]

Originally Posted by chucksnee

You know I just the other day I seen a news article on FOX, 2 guys went up to a house and started yelling...we're the FBI, let us in, and while they were doing that they had a crow bar trying to break in....the owners said who are you, when the owner looked out and seen the crow bar....he fired a warning shot....those 2 guys fled faster than lightning....

The whole point (IN MY OWN OPINION) is that most people do not have a weapon....and they know that (the person trying to rob you) Sooooooooo if more people start having CPP (Concealed weapons permit (CWP)) then the robber's will start saying.....hummmmmmmmmmm I wonder if that next person I rob has a weapon...............

Maybe so, but I'd sure hope all those CCWs go to people who at least take a good class and actively practice.

Fill my neighborhood with guns in the hands of untrained, unknowledgeable people and I think I'll move. lol I've repeatedly tried to get my wife comfortable at the range and she still jitters in anticipation of the recoil and noise; so much that she couldn't shoot accurately to save her life. Its been a struggle just to get her to keep her eyes open. I got her a mini pepper spay that goes on her keychain.

Warning shots are all good until you discover the round went through the wall/floor/ceiling and killed someone next door. Not something you tend to worry about in the country, but I'm a city guy.

In all honesty, its largely a pita to carry anyhow. I just can't see your average person doing so continously so as to ever make concealed carry much of a deterent. I don't know if you're familiar with a Glock 27, but its a .40 calibur sub-compact; I have an ankle holster and even as tiny as it is its still pretty uncomfortable.