New Gas Pack System : which one & who to install ? (Madison: contractor, prices)

[writerwife]

Originally Posted by savdbigrace

Thanks writerwife for the FYI. I wonder how long manufacturers are required to maintain replacement parts? I don't know about you but the fact that the norm in todays HVAC systems is a service life from 30 to 50 % of what was available just 20 to 30 years ago is an outrage! Not everyone can afford to replace a system in as little as 10 years! Please forgive my rant. But with all the upgrades that an older home demands, whatever happened to the concept of product reliability & durability as a prime maketing tool in business success? Does anyone remember : "Maytag ... The Dependability People"?

Yeah... we were pretty taken aback when we found out the lifespan dropped from about 35yrs to 12. Pathetic. They lowered the lifespan but it didn't drop the price one iota. $$$

[savdbigrace]

So here's a question. Given that lower SEER values are going to be the first to become obsolete, how is one to anticipate what won't be considered obsolete in say 10 years or less? Here's what I would suggest needs to happen : We the voting public & consumers should demand that if the almighty EPA is going to mandate tougher energy efficiency standards for every product that we buy, then they should couple those with tougher durability/reliability standards as well!!! Because in this mad push to be both "green" & "sustainable", it's neither when those more efficient products only last half as long!

[hvactech]

The lower efficiency units will only become obsolete In the sense that they will not be sold any more
Parts will be easily accessible for Many years to come
Anyone telling you different is LYING and simply trying to sell you something you don't need
Parts for a 30 year old York heat pump are still readily available today
Trane? Almost anything you need is available
Some extremely old units may be more expensive to replace parts.
But they ARE available

[writerwife]

Originally Posted by hvactech

The lower efficiency units will only become obsolete In the sense that they will not be sold any more
Parts will be easily accessible for Many years to come
Anyone telling you different is LYING and simply trying to sell you something you don't need
Parts for a 30 year old York heat pump are still readily available today
Trane? Almost anything you need is available
Some extremely old units may be more expensive to replace parts.
But they ARE available

I can't even remember what brand unit we did have replaced last yr but we were told by 4 different companies that the parts that we needed to repair were 1. either not available anymore because it was now a minimum of 13 seer and it had been too long or 2. the part and installation was a couple grand while the rest of the unit was about at it's lifespan (it was put in, in 1999)
So, if what you say is true then just about every company that deals in hvac lies?

[r x f]

Originally Posted by savdbigrace

So here's a question. Given that lower SEER values are going to be the first to become obsolete, how is one to anticipate what won't be considered obsolete in say 10 years or less? Here's what I would suggest needs to happen : We the voting public & consumers should demand that if the almighty EPA is going to mandate tougher energy efficiency standards for every product that we buy, then they should couple those with tougher durability/reliability standards as well!!! Because in this mad push to be both "green" & "sustainable", it's neither when those more efficient products only last half as long!

The manufs. supply what the market will bear. The NHTSA requires certain vehicle fuel efficiency standards (CAFE). The gov't also requires things such as TPMS, ESC, etc that increase the cost of vehicles to make them safer. However, people still demand very high reliability, and the vehicle OEMs have passed on cost increases for safety while keeping reliability. If people really wanted a dead nuts reliable HVAC unit that lasted 25 years, it would be supplied.

Originally Posted by writerwife

I can't even remember what brand unit we did have replaced last yr but we were told by 4 different companies that the parts that we needed to repair were 1. either not available anymore because it was now a minimum of 13 seer and it had been too long or 2. the part and installation was a couple grand while the rest of the unit was about at it's lifespan (it was put in, in 1999)
So, if what you say is true then just about every company that deals in hvac lies?

You probably had a coil/compressor go bad. $$$ Although the parts are available, the replacement cost isn't always worth it for a 10 year old system. My brother's 8 year old 10SEER coil began leaking a few months ago. Replacement cost - $1200. New system - $4000. He chose the new system because it would save him >30% in heating/cooling costs and didn't want to bother with putting more money into the old system down the road.
Were the old parts readily available? Yes.
Were they clearly the right choice price-wise? No, but that's what was ranted about originally.

[writerwife]

Originally Posted by r x f

The manufs. supply what the market will bear. The NHTSA requires certain vehicle fuel efficiency standards (CAFE). The gov't also requires things such as TPMS, ESC, etc that increase the cost of vehicles to make them safer. However, people still demand very high reliability, and the vehicle OEMs have passed on cost increases for safety while keeping reliability. If people really wanted a dead nuts reliable HVAC unit that lasted 25 years, it would be supplied.


You probably had a coil/compressor go bad. $$$ Although the parts are available, the replacement cost isn't always worth it for a 10 year old system. My brother's 8 year old 10SEER coil began leaking a few months ago. Replacement cost - $1200. New system - $4000. He chose the new system because it would save him >30% in heating/cooling costs and didn't want to bother with putting more money into the old system down the road.
Were the old parts readily available? Yes.
Were they clearly the right choice price-wise? No, but that's what was ranted about originally.

Right. That's the exact situation we ran into. It was the compressor but, the real prob was some part that goes from compressor to something else (like my tech speak?). But yeah, generally the same situation.

[savdbigrace]

I see I'm not the only one having to weigh the price of repairing ( in my case) the 32 yr. old Heil/Whirlpool gas pack thats served me exceptionally well. Or, sink $5000. plus into new equipment, that local contractors and even an inspector with my local Huntsville utilities said " they're all junk" !!! So goes the old saying - you're d***** if you do and d***** if you don't ! For example, I just finished reading about a class action law suit @ AC Coil Leak for Goodman & Amana, Evaporator Coil Leaks, AC Coil Replacement, 972.203.1317 , against Goodman/Amana corp. that apparently began in 2012. No one in the HVAC business that I've talked with bothered to mention what a nightmare this company has been, for both customers and contractors, in trying to get them to stand behind their product warranties!!! And ironically, Amana is a brand that was recommended to me " as having the best warranty. "

[CoreLysium]

I was trying to figure out your d***** and decided it should be "dog feces" though I realize there's an asterisk missing. I didn't realize it was just "darned."

"Darn those socks!"

[savdbigrace]

Originally Posted by CoreLysium

I was trying to figure out your d***** and decided it should be "dog feces" though I realize there's an asterisk missing. I didn't realize it was just "darned."

"Darn those socks!"

Yea . You know, either that or " danged " as we would politely say down south !

[savdbigrace]

Anyway, as I continue to search the web on my quest for the pros and cons of what would be a wise investment in a replacement electric/gas pack system, I'm shocked by how many people are posting horror stories of their personal HVAC repair and maintenance costs. Some are experiencing problems right from the-get-go with failing mother boards, expansion valves, compressors, leaking coils, etc. And these are across all makes and models. Many folks are sadly at their wits end with recurring failures of the same components in equipment only a few years old. I've read that with many leaking coils, wheather they're fixed or not, the customer is left paying hundreds in related costs to recharge the system whenever this 410A coolant has leaked out. And that's because none of this high priced coolant is covered under warranty!! Do any of you sense, as I do, a coming consumer rebellion against a government and an industry that's "hanging us out to dry" in the name of higher efficiency and climate change mandates? The stuff they're selling us may be new but it is definately not improved!