Electrical engineer tased at his housewarming party sues Madison County deputies for excessive force (how much, purchase)

[weaverra]

Originally Posted by Nlambert

So you DID read where I told you the Limestone CO LEO told me and may others in another forum that blocking the door is EXACTLY how you deny entry to the home, right? (Confirmed by my stepfather who is the Chief of Police in Purvis, MS) When you verbally deny entry and physically deny entry (without going hands on) and the LEO still tries to force their way in, THEN you let them move you and deal with it through the court system. By doing this, it can be proven that you tried to deny entrance (no one can say they didn't hear it) more than once, and those denials were ignored. Glad you have been in law enforcement before.

First off I would never seek legal advise from a cop. Honestly, I don't really care what any cop told you. Another cop may disagree with that assertion and recommend a different way.

Originally Posted by Nlambert

Again, the man was sticking to his rights as a citizen. You can't try to dilute those just to "keep down an altercation." The officer was in the wrong, and I feel like you're going to see this as the whole thing plays out.

I personally think the case is going to get dismissed. How is he going to prove that the cop did not have probable cause based on what the cop believed to be probable cause at the moment? If that officer saw someone who any reasonable person would believe to be underage by their appearance, I don't see how you can disprove that unless you have evidence to prove otherwise.

Originally Posted by Nlambert

I've already answered this multiple times and you've ignored it. Blocking entry to the home is still NOT probable cause to enter the home.

It really depends on the circumstances surrounding the situation. If you are having a party with alcohol and there are people there that any reasonable person would assume might be underage it could be used as probable cause.

I forgot you along with others in here don't need all the facts to condemn the officer. It's guilty until proven innocent for cops. Without any of us really being there it's hard to say if he had justifiable cause or not.

Originally Posted by Nlambert

In a different situation, what if his wife were getting out of the shower naked and he didn't want the officer barging in on her? Or what if he had sick children in the house and didn't want some stranger barging into his home and scaring them? He did his duty, the officer appears to have failed at his. Time will tell.

This was stated to have been a party situation with alcohol present and about two dozen people there.

Originally Posted by Nlambert

Oh really? So they're not here to serve and protect the public? It gets deeper than the general public. We are all a part of the general public. So an officer has a sworn duty to protect US as individuals, which make up the general public.

Ask Joseph Lozito how that worked out for him.

Originally Posted by Nlambert

We are all a part of the general public. So an officer has a sworn duty to protect US as individuals, which make up the general public.

Actually the SCOTUS has stated quite the opposite. They do not have the obligation to protect you individually. An officer does not have the sworn duty to take a bullet for you nor does he have the sworn duty to stop someone from committing a crime against you personally. He does however have the duty to apprehend and arrest such criminal.

Originally Posted by Nlambert

We all have Constitutional rights that prohibit ANYONE from infringing our rights to privacy with respect to the law. The law says (and I am paraphrasing) that an officer must have probable cause (there's that word again) before your right to privacy is suspended. If you've done your due diligence in trying to protect your rights as a citizen and they are infringed upon, THEN you go through the legal system to have those rights recognized and restored. You don't stand back, do nothing, and then go after them later. It's a combination of all of this.

I suggest if you don't know your rights, you take a moment to become acquainted with them. They're kind of important.

The Constitution says "...and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause,..." It never defines probable cause.

Probable cause as defined by the SCOTUS:

"Probable cause exists where the facts and circumstances within the officers' knowledge, and of which they have reasonably trustworthy information, are sufficient in themselves to warrant a belief by a man of reasonable caution that a crime is being committed."

Is it unreasonable to assume a 26 year old man, having two dozen people at the party, could have had people there who would appear to be under the age of 21?

Originally Posted by Nlambert

I suggest if you don't know your rights, you take a moment to become acquainted with them. They're kind of important.

I know my rights and I know them well. I would suggest seeking legal advise from lawyers and not from cops.

[Nlambert]

Ok I'm just going to stop arguing with you. It's obvious that you are going to continue down the same path. If you actually READ everything I said, I said I believe not ALL cops are bad. But there are a few, and the number is growing. It helps to actually know your rights and know enough about the law to know when you are being treated unfairly. We will just have to agree to disagree and let the court system figure it out. The cop I was referring to was stating the law, not his opinion. I can probably get the info from him complete with the statutes if that is what you're getting at.

[Georgianbelle]

Originally Posted by weaverra

The real problem here is not police brutality. It's people not respecting law enforcement. If you believe you have been wrongly arrested you don't fight the police. You can still be charged and convicted with resisting arrest or assault on a police officer. You fight the charges before a judge and not with the police. True police brutality is when they take batons and beat someone within an inch of their life for no valid reason. That's police brutality.

So, the police have a right to enter my home without a warrant and tase me for having a housewarming party? Have you lost your mind? When have we lost our rights as Americans?

[weaverra]

Originally Posted by Georgianbelle

So, the police have a right to enter my home without a warrant and tase me for having a housewarming party?

Is that why they tased him and entered his home?

[weaverra]

Originally Posted by Georgianbelle

So, the police have a right to enter my home without a warrant and tase me for having a housewarming party? Have you lost your mind? When have we lost our rights as Americans?

Like I've said before and I will say it again. Officers of the law are not there to determine innocence or guilt. They are there to investigate and collect facts pertaining to crimes committed or possibly being committed. Some how people like you have this idea just because you exercise your rights it means the cops and facts that surround you go away. That's not always the case. According to a statement made by Dejong he saw what appeared to be underage drinkers. Underage drinking is a crime in Alabama. Whether that's what he saw or not is really going to be left for the court to decide. It's not your place as a citizen to determine on the spot whether or not that officer has probable cause or not. You can contest it in court. However if that is true and a reasonable people would have assumed the same thing deputy Dejong had ever right to investigate a possible crime in progress until a reasonable determination was made otherwise. He wouldn't have needed a warrant for that.

Here's an example I hear all the time pertaining to self defense. Most people on Youtube will tell you to never talk to police ever especially when dealing with deadly force and self defense. The fact is if there is a death involved not talking will almost always lead to your arrest. If you don't let the officers know basic facts about the situation the only facts they have are you killed a person and they must arrest you. It's up to you what you do. You can always request to have an attorney present. It's not just about exercising one's rights. It's about knowing how and when to invoke those rights.

[Georgianbelle]

Originally Posted by weaverra

Is that why they tased him and entered his home?

Did you read the article? They tased him because he refused them entrance. Without a warrant they had no right to demand entrance. He is within his rights to require one.

[texdav]

That is his side of the story. I am sure there is a lot more to it ;personally.

[rock90]

A family is having dinner. The dining room is visible from the street. The man and woman have glasses of wine on the table. There are kids sitting at the table. From the street, it's not clear that the glasses are lined up exactly in front of the adults. Probable cause, do not block that door!

[weaverra]

Originally Posted by Georgianbelle

Did you read the article? They tased him because he refused them entrance.

That's most certainly not what you implied.

Originally Posted by Georgianbelle

So, the police have a right to enter my home without a warrant and tase me for having a housewarming party?

[JuanHunt]

Weav has divulged a valuable piece of info...the cops are not your friends, there is no reason to even answer their knock on the door if they have not been summoned, if they show up uninvited, turn up the music and do some shots.