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Somebody here mentioned a few weeks ago that Constellation seemed to be getting off the ground again. I haven't noticed any activity there since then. Is it another false start?
Maybe they were just doing their quarterly dirt rotation?
Has Scott McClain ever delivered on a retail development that he has pitched to the public? I don't know his background or history in developing retail space here, but if I recall his initial concept for "The Fountain" development was considerably different than the Home Depot and Costco that ended up there. And Constellation has been stalled for close to a decade now with little progress or movement toward the originally-pitched concept.
Has Scott McClain ever delivered on a retail development that he has pitched to the public? I don't know his background or history in developing retail space here, but if I recall his initial concept for "The Fountain" development was considerably different than the Home Depot and Costco that ended up there. And Constellation has been stalled for close to a decade now with little progress or movement toward the originally-pitched concept.
At this point Constellation will fail, due to apathy, poor architecture design, lack of any major retail anchors
that we know of. NOW with that said he could still pull a rabbit out of the hat, but it would require a top end hotel, affordable housing, striking design, and a good mix of retail/entertainment, grocery store, theater, a strong tie in with the VBC and Clinton Ave and the greenway along the VBC/Embassy Suite. A tall order in Huntsville due to the wide variety of development that are well underway.
City Centre, Mid City, Madison Town Center, Whole Foods Center, Times Plaza, Stovehouse, The Avenue retail portions, just to name a few.
There have been MANY concepts but none have been right. The latest almost seems a desperate attempt but is probably the worst of the bunch. It will take a major tenant or two or three to get this done.
At this point Constellation will fail, due to apathy, poor architecture design, lack of any major retail anchors
that we know of. NOW with that said he could still pull a rabbit out of the hat, but it would require a top end hotel, affordable housing, striking design, and a good mix of retail/entertainment, grocery store, theater, a strong tie in with the VBC and Clinton Ave and the greenway along the VBC/Embassy Suite. A tall order in Huntsville due to the wide variety of development that are well underway.
City Centre, Mid City, Madison Town Center, Whole Foods Center, Times Plaza, Stovehouse, The Avenue retail portions, just to name a few.
There have been MANY concepts but none have been right. The latest almost seems a desperate attempt but is probably the worst of the bunch. It will take a major tenant or two or three to get this done.
The bigger picture of why Constellation hasn't been successful after being discussed for 15 years is because of the "Curse of the locals". By that I mean that the majority of the significant developments which have happened in the Huntsville area have been initiated by out of towners - Here is a list:
1. Bridge Street was originally built by the founder of Kinko's Copies who lived in L.A. In fact, architecturally it's almost a replica of The Grove Shopping Center in L.A. which is adjacent to the L.A. Famers Market. The present owners of Bridge Street are Miller Capital (based in Chicago) and they have a goal of their shopping centers being the number one in the area. They have expanded Bridge Street since they purchased it. In 2005, no one would have seen a four star Westin Hotel being built here, just to give a perspective on how things have changed. The catalyst for Bridge Street being built was a Request for Proposals by the City of Huntsville for an area of restaurants, and hotel and support businesses for workers in Research Park, similar to the Gateway development. The original developers went far beyond that.
2. All of the RCP Companies developments - Mid City, City Centre, the Whole Foods Shopping center and the new one being built across the street which will have a Chuy's. While RCP is based in Huntsville, the President actually lives just north of San Francisco.
3. Parkway Place - ownership is in Chattanooga.
All of the restaurants and retailers who have signed up for one of the RCP Companies projects or at Bridge Street could very easily have gone into Constellation, but for whatever reason chose not to .
Another example of a locally owned project which has struggled to attract retailers is Town Madison. Breland now has several names to tout (the Margaritaville Hotel as well as several hotels and smaller shops), but it has been a long time coming. He has certainly fared better than Scott McClain, but hasn't been as successful as RCP by any means or Bridge Street.
It may be that developers in larger cities have greater exposure to newer restaurant and retail concepts (often higher end) which gives them an advantage. RCP in particular has pushed the window of market possibilities as HSV is probably the smallest market to have a Top Golf and likewise a Dave and Busters. The original developers of Bridge Street were seeking to have a Nordstrom, Von Maur or Macy's to be the anchor, but the City of HSV couldn't proved the incentives these stores were asking. In hindsight, it seems that Nordstrom and Von Maur would be too high end for this market.
The bigger picture of why Constellation hasn't been successful after being discussed for 15 years is because of the "Curse of the locals". By that I mean that the majority of the significant developments which have happened in the Huntsville area have been initiated by out of towners - Here is a list:
1. Bridge Street was originally built by the founder of Kinko's Copies who lived in L.A. In fact, architecturally it's almost a replica of The Grove Shopping Center in L.A. which is adjacent to the L.A. Famers Market. The present owners of Bridge Street are Miller Capital (based in Chicago) and they have a goal of their shopping centers being the number one in the area. They have expanded Bridge Street since they purchased it. In 2005, no one would have seen a four star Westin Hotel being built here, just to give a perspective on how things have changed. The catalyst for Bridge Street being built was a Request for Proposals by the City of Huntsville for an area of restaurants, and hotel and support businesses for workers in Research Park, similar to the Gateway development. The original developers went far beyond that.
2. All of the RCP Companies developments - Mid City, City Centre, the Whole Foods Shopping center and the new one being built across the street which will have a Chuy's. While RCP is based in Huntsville, the President actually lives just north of San Francisco.
3. Parkway Place - ownership is in Chattanooga.
All of the restaurants and retailers who have signed up for one of the RCP Companies projects or at Bridge Street could very easily have gone into Constellation, but for whatever reason chose not to .
Another example of a locally owned project which has struggled to attract retailers is Town Madison. Breland now has several names to tout (the Margaritaville Hotel as well as several hotels and smaller shops), but it has been a long time coming. He has certainly fared better than Scott McClain, but hasn't been as successful as RCP by any means or Bridge Street.
It may be that developers in larger cities have greater exposure to newer restaurant and retail concepts (often higher end) which gives them an advantage. RCP in particular has pushed the window of market possibilities as HSV is probably the smallest market to have a Top Golf and likewise a Dave and Busters. The original developers of Bridge Street were seeking to have a Nordstrom, Von Maur or Macy's to be the anchor, but the City of HSV couldn't proved the incentives these stores were asking. In hindsight, it seems that Nordstrom and Von Maur would be too high end for this market.
It seems that way only because of all the construction that’s causing us to wait for them to come here. We have too many developments Not to have Nordstrom’s and Von Maur Lol Its Only a matter of time. 2018 was full of Restaurant announcements so 2019 will be mostly Retail.
The bigger picture of why Constellation hasn't been successful after being discussed for 15 years is because of the "Curse of the locals". By that I mean that the majority of the significant developments which have happened in the Huntsville area have been initiated by out of towners - Here is a list:
1. Bridge Street was originally built by the founder of Kinko's Copies who lived in L.A. In fact, architecturally it's almost a replica of The Grove Shopping Center in L.A. which is adjacent to the L.A. Famers Market. The present owners of Bridge Street are Miller Capital (based in Chicago) and they have a goal of their shopping centers being the number one in the area. They have expanded Bridge Street since they purchased it. In 2005, no one would have seen a four star Westin Hotel being built here, just to give a perspective on how things have changed. The catalyst for Bridge Street being built was a Request for Proposals by the City of Huntsville for an area of restaurants, and hotel and support businesses for workers in Research Park, similar to the Gateway development. The original developers went far beyond that.
2. All of the RCP Companies developments - Mid City, City Centre, the Whole Foods Shopping center and the new one being built across the street which will have a Chuy's. While RCP is based in Huntsville, the President actually lives just north of San Francisco.
3. Parkway Place - ownership is in Chattanooga.
All of the restaurants and retailers who have signed up for one of the RCP Companies projects or at Bridge Street could very easily have gone into Constellation, but for whatever reason chose not to .
Another example of a locally owned project which has struggled to attract retailers is Town Madison. Breland now has several names to tout (the Margaritaville Hotel as well as several hotels and smaller shops), but it has been a long time coming. He has certainly fared better than Scott McClain, but hasn't been as successful as RCP by any means or Bridge Street.
It may be that developers in larger cities have greater exposure to newer restaurant and retail concepts (often higher end) which gives them an advantage. RCP in particular has pushed the window of market possibilities as HSV is probably the smallest market to have a Top Golf and likewise a Dave and Busters. The original developers of Bridge Street were seeking to have a Nordstrom, Von Maur or Macy's to be the anchor, but the City of HSV couldn't proved the incentives these stores were asking. In hindsight, it seems that Nordstrom and Von Maur would be too high end for this market.
Smallest for Top Golf, but not the smallest for Dave & Buster's. You probably should include Morgan/Decatur in your 'size' mention, and then it wouldn't be the smallest for Top Golf. They certainly work and shop in Huntsville
Why too high end? The income level here is well above average for the state, southeast, and nation.
[quote=RocketDawg;53930779]Smallest for Top Golf, but not the smallest for Dave & Buster's. You probably should include Morgan/Decatur in your 'size' mention, and then it wouldn't be the smallest for Top Golf. They certainly work and shop in Huntsville
Why too high end? The income level here is well above average for the state, southeast, and nation.[/quote]
The reason I say Nordstrom and Von Maur would be too high end is because of the experience that Belk had in their attempt at making the Bridge Street store their "Flagship Store" for North Alabama. At the time Belk was in negotiations to move their Madison Square store to a new location at Bridge Street, the City of Huntsville requested that they build a high end store carrying expensive brands. Initially they did and for several years they did, but now they have cut back because the high end brands didn't sell.
I agree with you that there are a lot of high income households in this area, but they are spread out over a large area from County Line Rd. in west Madison to McMullen Cove (in almost Gurley). Many of the higher end shoppers in southeast Huntsville rarely shop west of the Parkway, so it doesn't matter that they have the high end income as far as Bridge Street or any other development wet of the Parkway is concerned.
Also anecdotal evidence, while shopping in the Men's department at Dillard's, I asked the salesman if Dillard's would build a store on the west side of town - He said emphatically "No. In fact, the management of Parkway Place asked Dillard's to expand their store and carry more high end brands and Dillard's told them, No." He said that Dillard's Parkway Place has customers from the whole area - Decatur included and they believe they have just the right size store for the market.
If Dillard's won't expand, it is hard to see how an even higher end store like Nordstrom or Von Maur will be successful here. Also, look at all of the national chains who have gone out of business here - Banana Republic, J. Crew and Ann Taylor as well as the empty store spaces at Parkway Place and Bridge Street.
Also, look at all of the national chains who have gone out of business here - Banana Republic, J. Crew and Ann Taylor as well as the empty store spaces at Parkway Place and Bridge Street.
Banana Republic's tiny "boutique" size store simply didn't carry enough variety. Plus on top of that the web site some time offered you deals on-line that you couldn't get in store...and they offered free returns. I really don't understand what they were thinking. Blew my mind.
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