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I do find it interesting that the city of Madison doesn't seem to have any issue with Breland continuing to adding more residential space into the Town Madison footprint (additional apartments/townhomes/condos) to the east of "The Station" and more homes just north of the Rock Quarry along Town Madison Blvd as it crosses the ridge going from the east side to the west side of the development, but is concerned/leery about the potential for additional families with school-aged children occupying the proposed mixed-use development just east of the Madison Golf Center on I-565. I suspect the price point is substantially lower for homes/condos/apartments in the proposed development than it is for residential space in Town Madison, but I'm not sure that you can make a prediction on the population of school-aged children within either based strictly off of price or unit size.
Cities have an interest in maintaining a significant school aged population who reside in single family homes for the reason that the rankings of the schools will more likely be higher and as a result the residential property values will be maintained because of the highly ranked schools.
Most people probably don't think about this, but the City of Madison has a lot of older neighborhoods with a lot of homes of empty nesters which has depleted the numbers of school aged kids in their respective districts. However, at the same time, there have been a lot of apartments constructed, so the mix of kids in the schools could easily be dominated by kids who reside in apartments - These kids tend to be more transient (by that I mean they move around a lot) and as a result face greater challenges academically. Often, there is less parental involvement as well and less participation in things like the PTA. The bigger reality is that children coming from homes where their parents have a college degree tend to have higher test scores and these children are far more likely to live in single family homes.
Therefore, as much as there is talk about overcrowded schools in Madison, the City officials need to look down the road when there will be even more older neighborhoods of empty nesters and the apartments aren't going away. So, there is good reason to have more new single family homes being built to supply kids for the schools six years from now. Madison has a good number of older lower rent apartment communities and they tend to provide a large school aged population consistently over time, because parents are attracted to the highly rated schools. Yet, at the same time, the number of kids in the single family home neighborhoods goes down because homeowners tend to stay in place and don't move after their kids are grown.
The specific apartments near the Madison Golf Center will be too high rent for most families with school aged kids - The one bedroom units will probably be around $1,000 a month, so there won't be a significant number of kids waiting for the school bus there. Young, single family professionals will be the tenants they attract.
So, back to TM and Cliff Farms, it isn't that negative to have more single family homes built in those areas. The houses being built in TM are a good bit more expensive than the vast majority of existing homes in Madison, so their property taxes will be carrying more of the weight of paying for the cost of education and police and fire services than the median priced house in Madison currently does.
What it boils down to is that many (maybe most) of the people moving into this area want to live in Madison, and the main reason is the school system. All of Edgewater that's in the Madison part are 30 years old or so and thus, for the most part, are empty nesters. There are a few school age kids but not nearly as many as in most neighborhoods.
Not sure what the single-family houses in Town Madison in general will cost, but what appears to be smaller ones that are very close together (reminds me of Seaside on the Gulf Coast) start in the mid-$500s, which is still pretty expensive for this area. From the outside they look really nice.
Which doesn’t bode well long term. One of the biggest ways to kill a project is poor infrastructure and no real incentive to locate in it. Toyota Field might be the only thing to save it. But without games there is no need to build /start the interchange until at least this fall
If they start in the fall, they may as well wait til the spring. Fall and winter here tend to be very wet so they'd not be able to work much.
So all of this has me wondering, will bids actually be accepted, contracts signed and construction on the ramps for Town Madison ever start or is this going to devolve into a bunch of lawsuits? Will it drag out for a few years until Madison ends up having to bite the bullet and pay for and have the ramps built themselves? At this point, the ball should have already been rolling.
So all of this has me wondering, will bids actually be accepted, contracts signed and construction on the ramps for Town Madison ever start or is this going to devolve into a bunch of lawsuits? Will it drag out for a few years until Madison ends up having to bite the bullet and pay for and have the ramps built themselves? At this point, the ball should have already been rolling.
I actually just received a copy of a letter this morning that ALDOT director, John Cooper, sent in reply to a letter from the Town Madison folks regarding the I-565 Town Madison interchange. The letter from Mr. Cooper to Mr. Joey Ceci of Town Madison, is dated June 12, 2020 and the letter from Town Madison to Mr. Cooper was dated May 28, 2020, so this is a very recent exchange. Town Madison specifically requested assistance from ALDOT on two points: 1) ALDOT's assistance/participation in reducing the cost of the westbound ramps or in finding alternative sources of funding/financing, and 2) permission to open the eastbound ramps once they are completed in June.
As it relates to the first point, the City of Madison and Town Madison were expecting bids for the westbound ramps to be in the range of $16-$18 million. The low bid that was received was slightly less than $28.5 million and is outside the funding limits established for that portion of the interchange by Town Madison and the City of Madison. If you recall, Breland/TM is supposed to pay for the interchange work and be reimbursed by the city of Madison with sales tax proceeds for the principal amount with interest. ALDOT agreed to review the project plans and try to assist in finding cost reductions and/or working with Town Madison to assist with arranging financing alternatives.
In regard to the second point, Mr. Cooper reminded the Town Madison folks of a signed agreement between ALDOT and Town Madison for TM to control and manage the interchange work "because of it's belief that it could perform the work more cheaply and more quickly." He also noted that that request had resulted in the work not being performed in the conventional manner where plans would have been developed by ALDOT and bids solicited by ALDOT. Mr. Cooper also noted that the signed agreement allowed Town Madison "to perform the project in phases so long as no phase is opened to traffic before work commences on the next phase." The signed agreement also contained a pledge from Town Madison to complete all work under the agreement no later than October 1, 2019. Mr. Cooper says he communicated with the FHWA and they are sticking with their position that prior to the opening of the two eastbound ramps, construction of all remaining elements needed to open the full interchange in an acceptable time would need to be underway.
In summary, TM finds itself in quite the pickle here as they don't have the financing/funds to start work on the two westbound ramps and aren't going to be allowed to open the two eastbound ramps until they can somehow present a plan for completing the two westbound ramps in a timely fashion. My take from the above is that Mr. Cooper, ALDOT, and the FHWA are sticking it to Town Madison and the City of Madison a bit for suggesting that they could get the interchange completed quicker and cheaper than the above entities could. The tables have turned quite a bit now and Mr. Cooper, ALDOT, and the FHWA hold all the leverage and cards going forward.
If I were Breland, I would can Mr. Ceci in short order as president of Breland Companies. He has put his foot in his mouth so many different times on this project that I've lost actual count. He has greatly undermined any momentum the project has had by repeatedly saying things that never materialized and making statements that could easily be proven false with minimal research. I don't know what part he played in the negotiations with ALDOT, but I would imagine he had a seat at the table since he is the one specifically requesting assistance/relief from ALDOT in the letter to Mr. Cooper.
I actually just received a copy of a letter this morning that ALDOT director, John Cooper, sent in reply to a letter from the Town Madison folks regarding the I-565 Town Madison interchange. The letter from Mr. Cooper to Mr. Joey Ceci of Town Madison, is dated June 12, 2020 and the letter from Town Madison to Mr. Cooper was dated May 28, 2020, so this is a very recent exchange. Town Madison specifically requested assistance from ALDOT on two points: 1) ALDOT's assistance/participation in reducing the cost of the westbound ramps or in finding alternative sources of funding/financing, and 2) permission to open the eastbound ramps once they are completed in June.
As it relates to the first point, the City of Madison and Town Madison were expecting bids for the westbound ramps to be in the range of $16-$18 million. The low bid that was received was slightly less than $28.5 million and is outside the funding limits established for that portion of the interchange by Town Madison and the City of Madison. If you recall, Breland/TM is supposed to pay for the interchange work and be reimbursed by the city of Madison with sales tax proceeds for the principal amount with interest. ALDOT agreed to review the project plans and try to assist in finding cost reductions and/or working with Town Madison to assist with arranging financing alternatives.
In regard to the second point, Mr. Cooper reminded the Town Madison folks of a signed agreement between ALDOT and Town Madison for TM to control and manage the interchange work "because of it's belief that it could perform the work more cheaply and more quickly." He also noted that that request had resulted in the work not being performed in the conventional manner where plans would have been developed by ALDOT and bids solicited by ALDOT. Mr. Cooper also noted that the signed agreement allowed Town Madison "to perform the project in phases so long as no phase is opened to traffic before work commences on the next phase." The signed agreement also contained a pledge from Town Madison to complete all work under the agreement no later than October 1, 2019. Mr. Cooper says he communicated with the FHWA and they are sticking with their position that prior to the opening of the two eastbound ramps, construction of all remaining elements needed to open the full interchange in an acceptable time would need to be underway.
In summary, TM finds itself in quite the pickle here as they don't have the financing/funds to start work on the two westbound ramps and aren't going to be allowed to open the two eastbound ramps until they can somehow present a plan for completing the two westbound ramps in a timely fashion. My take from the above is that Mr. Cooper, ALDOT, and the FHWA are sticking it to Town Madison and the City of Madison a bit for suggesting that they could get the interchange completed quicker and cheaper than the above entities could. The tables have turned quite a bit now and Mr. Cooper, ALDOT, and the FHWA hold all the leverage and cards going forward.
If I were Breland, I would can Mr. Ceci in short order as president of Breland Companies. He has put his foot in his mouth so many different times on this project that I've lost actual count. He has greatly undermined any momentum the project has had by repeatedly saying things that never materialized and making statements that could easily be proven false with minimal research. I don't know what part he played in the negotiations with ALDOT, but I would imagine he had a seat at the table since he is the one specifically requesting assistance/relief from ALDOT in the letter to Mr. Cooper.
Wow!
A huge mess, and probably the biggest loser in this is the Trash Pandas. They did everything in a professional and efficient manner only to be getting screwed not only by Town Madison but Covid-19.
If and it’s a big of any games are played no one is going to deal with traffic issues after a few times. Aldot is giddy that this time they aren’t the problem or screw up. With that said I believe
Aldot knew all along the ramps would exceed estimates and this was their way out of after being insulted and may have even told the bidders to be generous in their numbers.
Wow!
A huge mess, and probably the biggest loser in this is the Trash Pandas. They did everything in a professional and efficient manner only to be getting screwed not only by Town Madison but Covid-19.
If and it’s a big of any games are played no one is going to deal with traffic issues after a few times. Aldot is giddy that this time they aren’t the problem or screw up
The Trash Panda organization (Ralph Nelson and others) has indeed done everything in a first class manner only to be let down in the end by the developers, and perhaps, in some regard the City of Madison. It's truly hard to fathom how an entire baseball stadium could be designed and built from the ground up and ready months before opening day when almost nothing around it was ready and still isn't ready to host baseball events.
The Trash Panda organization may not view it this way, but COVID-19 might have been a blessing for that organization as there is almost no way to get thousands of people into and out of the development given the current road situation. People attending games would have likely encountered an experience that they wouldn't find very appealing relative to traffic issues and dining options and left many wondering about the worth of even attending games.
Oh I think now they realize it was a blessing albeit not what they wanted. Everyone around the stadium has fouled out. They are making the best of the situation with block movie parties fireworks etc.
Now I do think the whole thing can be a big success but at the moment there a lot of high roadblocks.
Oddly enough, the thing that may save TM is the return of folks flying on airplanes - Why do I say that? Because they have been the most successful in attracting hotels - three near the Wall Triana -I 565 interchange and the proposed 7 story Courtyard and Residence Inn near Toyota Field. If a vaccine is released, then it stands to reason that more business travelers will feel comfortable flying and as a result the local hotels will have a high occupancy rate again. More hotels can be built (the FBI has requested them for visitors to their large operation being built on Redstone Arsenal). These business travelers will provide a strong market for nearby restaurants, so Breland should be able to sell off more of the parcels which should supply him with needed cash to pay for the interchange at I-565.
Otherwise, it's hard to see what he will be able to attract on a big scale to pay the millions needed. Selling lots in the residential area will take a long time as compared to selling an acre lot for a restaurant for over a million. So far, the higher priced homes haven't been moving that fast even though they have a great location and Madison City Schools.
I actually just received a copy of a letter this morning that ALDOT director, John Cooper, sent in reply to a letter from the Town Madison folks regarding the I-565 Town Madison interchange. The letter from Mr. Cooper to Mr. Joey Ceci of Town Madison, is dated June 12, 2020 and the letter from Town Madison to Mr. Cooper was dated May 28, 2020, so this is a very recent exchange. Town Madison specifically requested assistance from ALDOT on two points: 1) ALDOT's assistance/participation in reducing the cost of the westbound ramps or in finding alternative sources of funding/financing, and 2) permission to open the eastbound ramps once they are completed in June.
As it relates to the first point, the City of Madison and Town Madison were expecting bids for the westbound ramps to be in the range of $16-$18 million. The low bid that was received was slightly less than $28.5 million and is outside the funding limits established for that portion of the interchange by Town Madison and the City of Madison. If you recall, Breland/TM is supposed to pay for the interchange work and be reimbursed by the city of Madison with sales tax proceeds for the principal amount with interest. ALDOT agreed to review the project plans and try to assist in finding cost reductions and/or working with Town Madison to assist with arranging financing alternatives.
In regard to the second point, Mr. Cooper reminded the Town Madison folks of a signed agreement between ALDOT and Town Madison for TM to control and manage the interchange work "because of it's belief that it could perform the work more cheaply and more quickly." He also noted that that request had resulted in the work not being performed in the conventional manner where plans would have been developed by ALDOT and bids solicited by ALDOT. Mr. Cooper also noted that the signed agreement allowed Town Madison "to perform the project in phases so long as no phase is opened to traffic before work commences on the next phase." The signed agreement also contained a pledge from Town Madison to complete all work under the agreement no later than October 1, 2019. Mr. Cooper says he communicated with the FHWA and they are sticking with their position that prior to the opening of the two eastbound ramps, construction of all remaining elements needed to open the full interchange in an acceptable time would need to be underway.
In summary, TM finds itself in quite the pickle here as they don't have the financing/funds to start work on the two westbound ramps and aren't going to be allowed to open the two eastbound ramps until they can somehow present a plan for completing the two westbound ramps in a timely fashion. My take from the above is that Mr. Cooper, ALDOT, and the FHWA are sticking it to Town Madison and the City of Madison a bit for suggesting that they could get the interchange completed quicker and cheaper than the above entities could. The tables have turned quite a bit now and Mr. Cooper, ALDOT, and the FHWA hold all the leverage and cards going forward.
If I were Breland, I would can Mr. Ceci in short order as president of Breland Companies. He has put his foot in his mouth so many different times on this project that I've lost actual count. He has greatly undermined any momentum the project has had by repeatedly saying things that never materialized and making statements that could easily be proven false with minimal research. I don't know what part he played in the negotiations with ALDOT, but I would imagine he had a seat at the table since he is the one specifically requesting assistance/relief from ALDOT in the letter to Mr. Cooper.
It sounds like Cooper is being a bit stubborn because he can be, but I can see no real reason the existing ramps can't be opened when they're completed (and I believe they ARE complete, maybe other than a guard rail or two). Sounds more political (or maybe personal between Breland/Ceci and Cooper) than practical to me, reminiscent of the billboard debacle of a few years ago. I have a feeling that if the project was anywhere else in the state, Cooper would be more cooperative in a changing world.
Maybe they should charge a toll for usage of the westbound flyover so Huntsville would pay their part of the Rocket City Trash Pandas.
Oddly enough, the thing that may save TM is the return of folks flying on airplanes - Why do I say that? Because they have been the most successful in attracting hotels - three near the Wall Triana -I 565 interchange and the proposed 7 story Courtyard and Residence Inn near Toyota Field. If a vaccine is released, then it stands to reason that more business travelers will feel comfortable flying and as a result the local hotels will have a high occupancy rate again. More hotels can be built (the FBI has requested them for visitors to their large operation being built on Redstone Arsenal). These business travelers will provide a strong market for nearby restaurants, so Breland should be able to sell off more of the parcels which should supply him with needed cash to pay for the interchange at I-565.
Otherwise, it's hard to see what he will be able to attract on a big scale to pay the millions needed. Selling lots in the residential area will take a long time as compared to selling an acre lot for a restaurant for over a million. So far, the higher priced homes haven't been moving that fast even though they have a great location and Madison City Schools.
I don't know how many of the homes have sold, but I wouldn't want to buy one right now given the virtual inaccessibility, workers all over the place, and a sea of red mud every time it rains.
By the way - Covid certainly negatively affected air passenger traffic to the tune of about a 95% reduction. I read a few days ago that on one day, I think in May, there were only 400,000 passengers nationwide. That is an asoundingly low number.
But housing sales in this area didn't suffer all that much because of Covid. There's an article in the Huntsville Business Journal (it's a pay site with a few freebies per month, so I won't list a link), but as I recall, sales were down only about 5% during the Covid shutdown peak, and the inventory of available houses is just over 1000. Monthly sales during April and May were in the 700-800 range, so the inventory is only something over a month's worth of sales. The TM houses will sell, and I suspect Zierdt Rd completion on the north end is a big factor.
Maybe I'm being a little cynical, but it seems like Huntsville (manager of the Zierdt Rd project) and ALDOT are sort of holding Madison and Town Madison hostage with the slow road completion, interchange work, and such things. Maybe we should have gone to metro government about 50 years ago.
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