Pipes busting... (Madison: house, water heater, buy)

[r x f]

Originally Posted by NoleFanHSV

Year before last when it got about 5 degrees here in January, several breland homes had pipes bust in outside walls. I recall one owner saying that pipes were on the wrong side of insulation

One of the problems with batt insulation. It takes time and effort to properly insulate walls with wires, pipes, and other objects in the wall cavity.

You can see how to do it wrong and right here: Right Vs Wrong: Installing Insulation Batts In Exterior Walls - Part One

The neighborhood beside mine is being built up and I like to take a walk in the houses are they're being build ever so often. The fiberglass batts are pretty much never installed properly when you have a non-standard wall cavity.

Regarding Moderator cut: builder name, the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 5th picture appear to be of a space below a second floor. In that case, the pipes are in the thermal envelope and should not have any freezing issues.

In the other pictures, if the pipes are going to be encased in blown cellulose, I don't see any issue. R-30 is about 8.5 inches thick, so the pipes would need be be a few inches under that to be safe. If the pipes are high enough to be out of the insulation, then that's nuts IMO.

[LCTMadison]

I haven't seen it for myself because I haven't had the pleasure of dealing with them yet, but the inspector was pretty appalled by it. We were doing a frame inspection with another builder (Jeff Benton) and he was discussing the differences with the buyer in the quality that he sees in the JB homes versus a few of these other builders.

These are things that are great to pass along to buyers when we start discussing the pros and cons of different builders. The inspectors in my opinion are the absolute best resource when buyers begin to start discussing quality and differences in the builders.

NoleFan, to answer your other question...I'm not an attorney either but yes, I do think IF there was a deficiency in construction that can be shown that the homeowners could have a case. It would at least be worth it in my opinion to speak with an attorney if someone suffered significant damage. I would recommend Tom McGrath, he lives for these kinds of cases and he is a bulldog, it would take someone ballsy like him to go up against a large builder. Who suit would be filed against would depend on time frame. Sounds like this could be an issue that may be limited to your neighborhood as I haven't heard of this happening with any others which tells me it could have been that particular builder in there, which is pretty shocking. The super in your neighborhood was actually one of the best... excellent even compared to other construction supers in the area, very highly regarded. Again, I'm not sure if he was still in the neighborhood when your house was built or the others that have had issues, but he was promoted to a higher position around the end of 2013/early 2014. He is just not the type that I would expect would let something like that systematically get passed over but that very well could be what was happening.
Moderator cut: multiple builder names

[Emptynester1]

My pipe coming from the bib hose burst last year causing major damage. However I accidentally left the water hose connected, which I am told was the cause. So as precaution now, I open cabinets to the pipes, leave faucets to the outside dripping, and use bib covers. Maybe overkill but I don't want to ever go they that again. The plummer discussed the pipes that are freeze resistant but said in practice they really do give much more protection.

When you use your hose this spring for the first time, and your pressure seems low, shut the water off immediately and see what's going on. I wish I had known that.

[FatTails]

Originally Posted by NoleFanHSV

Yes I am on nextdoor. There was someone year before last year talking lawsuit as well. 3 or 4 homes were effected in 2015 when it dropped to almost 5 degrees. I know one person had thousands of dollars worth of damage.

I'm not a lawyer. If the insulation was not installed properly, then I think they might have a case.

If there is merit in a lawsuit I would think something akin to small claims court would be better. The class action lawsuits they talk about on nextdoor would see half the winnings taken by the lawyer and I would think the burden of proof would be quite high. With small claims court you might stand a chance of winning by default if Moderator cut: builderdoesn't think it's worth their time hiring a lawyer to fight a $500 suit. But I'm just making stuff up... I don't know anything about suing someone. But if the neighborhood does start a suit I'd be happy to join up and get my $40 AT&T calling card in five years.

[Southlander]

Pipes in attic? Insane. Our builder was going to put the water heater in the attic over our bed. I told him NO attic installation. "But it'll have a drip pan." I told him no drip pan would hold 60 gallons of water and to move the water heater to the garage.

I don't care who built your house - make sure your pipes are wrapped, cover your exterior faucets - we don't have Minnesota winters, but it's not unusual to have a couple of weeks of below freezing temps all day.

[toosie]

Cleaned up a ton of consumer complaint material so this thread can remain. Please don't name "bad builders" - just describe the situation. Thanks.

[NoleFanHSV]

Originally Posted by Southlander

Pipes in attic? Insane. Our builder was going to put the water heater in the attic over our bed. I told him NO attic installation. "But it'll have a drip pan." I told him no drip pan would hold 60 gallons of water and to move the water heater to the garage.

I don't care who built your house - make sure your pipes are wrapped, cover your exterior faucets - we don't have Minnesota winters, but it's not unusual to have a couple of weeks of below freezing temps all day.

Pipes in attics are quite common. It's no issue if installed properly. Some states require fire sprinkler systems in residential homes. Pipe has to go somewhere.

[LCTMadison]

Originally Posted by Emptynester1

My pipe coming from the bib hose burst last year causing major damage. However I accidentally left the water hose connected, which I am told was the cause. So as precaution now, I open cabinets to the pipes, leave faucets to the outside dripping, and use bib covers. Maybe overkill but I don't want to ever go they that again. The plummer discussed the pipes that are freeze resistant but said in practice they really do give much more protection.

When you use your hose this spring for the first time, and your pressure seems low, shut the water off immediately and see what's going on. I wish I had known that.

All your hose bibs are also in a T wall, your builder will not install them anywhere else, which is smart in practice.

[LCTMadison]

Originally Posted by NoleFanHSV

Pipes in attics are quite common. It's no issue if installed properly. Some states require fire sprinkler systems in residential homes. Pipe has to go somewhere.

I have yet to meet a reputable home inspector or builder worth his salt that would agree with you, but ok.

Its not common here. Maybe in Florida where it does not get quite as cold it is, although every house we owned in FL never had water lines run in the attic. Here, no, that is NOT common practice.

[Tennhioland]

In Maryland, sprinkler systems were mandatory in newer houses and water lines were run in the attic. I had a pipe burst in Maryland, but it had nothing to do with pipes in the attic. It was a pipe along an outside wall going to a bathroom on the 2nd floor. What a mess.