Any secular families out there? (Decatur: preschools, college, living)

[doc1]

Originally Posted by Charles

..... Kids are "indoctrinated" by their parents like little robots parroting what they hear on Sundays.

Who does the "indoctrinating" of your children?

[DvlsAdvc8]

Originally Posted by chj

what is the difference in the non religious people who "indoctrinate" there children like robots into thinking there is no god? people raise their children in ways that they feel is right and religion is one of the things that is taught whether it is right or wrong does not mean that they are brainwashing them into thinking like mindless robots. I could say the same thing about non religious people who teach their children there is no god and pound it into their head that it is the truth.

Right or wrong, its still indoctrination - despite the negative connotation of the word, its what all parents are doing in some manner.

Charles is merely pointing out the fact that such parents are passing on what someone tells them in church.

I've never known atheist/agnostic families to teach that there is no God. Atheism, on its own, isn't a doctrine and you'll find many different belief systems held by atheists - they're simply based on something other than the supernatural. As an atheist (the kind for whom agnostic is a sissy word used to avoid being abrassive to theists), I still say teaching that there is no God makes little sense. You can't teach what is not; you cannot prove that something does not exist from its absence. I like to say, nothing is, until it is. "Now, little Johnny, remember that there are 7 continents: Africa, Antarctica, Asia, Australia, Europe, North America, and South America. Whallawhalla-be-whatever, that's not a continent Johnny. There is no Whallawhalla-be-whatever." -just doesn't make much sense.

My kids will be indoctrinated with a heavy dose of skepticism, logic, reasoning, and the importance of careful observation. They will be taught that I don't have all the answers nor 100% locked-down conclusions - and that is just fine. Ideas are fluid things and the only thing that is important is the standard by which one determines what ideas should be accepted as our current best understanding.

So no, atheists do not teach that there is no God any more than we believe it is necessary to teach that there are no aliens, psychic powers, or magic. We teach such that the issue generally takes care of itself. We teach that extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence.

But to each his own, and everyone has a right to pass on their beliefs and traditions as they see fit.

[chj]

Originally Posted by DvlsAdvc8

Right or wrong, its still indoctrination.

Charles is merely pointing out the fact that such parents are passing on what someone tells them in church.

You have to have a doctrine in order to indoctrinate. I've never known atheist/agnostic families to teach that there is no God. As an atheist (the kind for whom agnostic is a sissy word used to avoid being abrassive to theists), I still say teaching that there is no God makes little sense. You can't teach what is not; you cannot prove that something does not exist from its absence. I like to say, nothing is, until it is.

My kids will be indoctrinated with a heavy dose of skepticism, logic, reasoning, and the importance of careful observation. They will be taught that I don't have 100% locked-down conclusions - that ideas are fluid things and the only thing that is important is the standard by which one determines what ideas should be accepted as our current best understanding.

So no, atheists do not teach that there is no God any more than we believe it is necessary to teach that there are no aliens, psychic powers, or magic. We teach such that there's no reason to believe there is a God.

We teach that extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence.

But to each his own.

I am only pointing out that just because they teach their children about god does not mean they are indoctrinating them. I believe in god, but, I have cousins and friends who have went to church about as much as I have and they are skeptical about it. While I agree that some people do force their beliefs on their children the majority of people that go to church do not and to say that they are indoctrinated like little robots is wrong. while atheists can claim that they don't have a doctrine it is wrong. they believe in how everything evolved, the big bang theory, and etc... that is their doctrine. just because they may not have a religious book and have a belief in god does not mean that they do not have a belief in how we got here. I believe in god and atheists believe in evolution. while people can call it what they want evolution is a belief in a certain type of creation just as christianity, judaism, islam and etc.... is a belief in another type of creation.

[DvlsAdvc8]

Originally Posted by doc1

Who does the "indoctrinating" of your children?

TV, just like everyone else's. j/k

[chj]

Originally Posted by DvlsAdvc8

TV, just like everyone else's. j/k

thats the truth. lol

[DvlsAdvc8]

Originally Posted by chj

I am only pointing out that just because they teach their children about god does not mean they are indoctrinating them. I believe in god, but, I have cousins and friends who have went to church about as much as I have and they are skeptical about it. While I agree that some people do force their beliefs on their children the majority of people that go to church do not and to say that they are indoctrinated like little robots is wrong. while atheists can claim that they don't have a doctrine it is wrong. they believe in how everything evolved, the big bang theory, and etc... that is their doctrine. just because they may not have a religious book and have a belief in god does not mean that they do not have a belief in how we got here. I believe in god and atheists believe in evolution. while people can call it what they want evolution is a belief in a certain type of creation just as christianity, judaism, islam and etc.... is a belief in another type of creation.

Well, I understand where you're coming from, but its still indoctrination. Its unlikely the individual would come to the same conclusions - God - without it being presented to them. Spiritual? Possibly, but God, probably not. It took 30,000 years for man to arrive at this particular set of Gods after having disposed of many others along the way.

We all do it. I assume that my way of thinking, my process, my doctrine if you will, is the best way to arrive at reliable truth. I'm right, here's my understanding and its justification; attack it, argue another view, but bring your evidence. The approach is the assumption. This is the way most atheists teach their children (read - indoctrinate) to think - and in so doing, its unlikely they'll consider the existence of God to be a reasonable proposition; no more than any other mythology.

I've always thought a key difference was this:

The theist is never wrong... ever... because belief is self-reinforcing and has a remarkable ability to adjust as needed. That kind of reliability is kind of nice in a way. It's very steady, comfortable and reassuring. If you believe something with no standard for determining its truth - that is, if you take something on faith - and that something is an assertion that can never be disproven - you can never be wrong.

The atheist is wrong all the time, at least those of my sort. What we accept as truth is understood to be a work in progress - a temporary construct of understanding, not divine law handed down on us. Being shown to be incorrect is a wonderful thing because it allows us to stop going down the wrong path and creates the opportunity to find the right one... two steps forward, one step back. There's a marketplace of ideas all vying for a spot and he who hath the best evidence wins... for now. It's kind of nice in its own way.

Then there are the folks that find some happy medium. It's all good. I like everyone until they try to make me be like them.

[DvlsAdvc8]

Originally Posted by chj

I believe in god and atheists believe in evolution.

This isn't the forum for a more extensive discussion of the difference, but suffice to say its not that simple.

Evolutionists (many of whom still believe in God, they are not mutually exclusive) do not believe in evolution in the same manner that you believe in God. It is not taken on faith.

But any going any further would be going too far off topic for this thread.

[Keeper]

Thanks Dvlsadvc8.. You are right if you want to discuss religion or atheist beliefs you can do so in that forum.

[rnc76]

Originally Posted by chj

what is the difference in the non religious people who "indoctrinate" there children like robots into thinking there is no god? people raise their children in ways that they feel is right and religion is one of the things that is taught whether it is right or wrong does not mean that they are brainwashing them into thinking like mindless robots. I could say the same thing about non religious people who teach their children there is no god and pound it into their head that it is the truth.

My experience as a non-believer is that you have to tread lightly with what you teach your children in a very religious place like Huntsville. If you want your children to fit in and you don't subscribe to the beliefs of a particular church, they need to be respectful of others beliefs. I don't think Baptists (for example, not picking on them) have that same concern. They are in the majority in their beliefs. They can alienate themselves from all that don't believe what they do and still fit into the mainstream of the local culture. That is a huge difference. I don't teach my child that "Christianity is wrong", the bible stories are not real... I'll let her decide what she believes later when she is more mature. I've never met a Christian with that attitude towards faith.

[dougb256]

Originally Posted by chj

While I agree that some people do force their beliefs on their children the majority of people that go to church do not and to say that they are indoctrinated like little robots is wrong.

One little 7-yr-old girl told my stepdaughter that she was going straight to Hell because she had said "a bad word" and that God hates sinners. I'd say the indoctrination was complete