Downtown Rescue Mission (Huntsville, Eva, Rutledge: apartments, city hall, home)

[harry chickpea]

Originally Posted by Reactionary

harry - it's not a 'religion' issue, it's a hundreds of homeless people milling about all day and night issue.

Color me confused. I thought it was a faith based Mission we were discussing. I can't recall ever hearing of a mission without a rather strong religious component. Are you saying that it isn't the proselytizers you object to, but the proselytizees? If the mission wasn't attempting a religious goal, then it wouldn't exist, and there wouldn't be a problem, would there?. That kind of puts the workers there in a position of being damned if they do, and others damned if they don't.

I'm pressing the point a little, because I perceive a dichotomy, one where people want their religion "lite," where they can feel good and not have to suffer the side effects of good works. I'm in no way saying that problems don't exist. I just can't come up with a concept that addresses the needs of the homeless in a better, less confrontational, or more cost effective fashion. Moving the Mission obviously doesn't address any of the core issues.

[Reactionary]

harry - I figured I'd be in trouble with you right about the time I hit 'post'

Of course, you are right.

The Mission has a faith component, most of those people do not cause trouble. They also have a shelter / food component (which is, of course, a faith component for those running / supporting the place).

I don't have a good answer either, but the City's involvement is that they paid a premium for the Seminole Ave property (IMO), plus licensing, zoning, policing, property values, taxes, etc. I think of City support as a secular issue.

As clamoore mentioned, she has her property value to consider. If her faith helps her decide to support the mission with her assets, fine. But the City deciding to negatively impact her property is not a faith issue - it is secular.

The Mission sale is already done. Where to put a new one is the next step.

[harry chickpea]

"harry - I figured I'd be in trouble with you right about the time I hit 'post'"

LOL, no. The only thing about the NIMBY attitude that concerns me is that it is self-serving and localized. Would it be a solution to break the Mission into smaller units and spread them around the city? What appears to be happening is a centralization of people who may have mental health and/or drug issues. A neighborhood can often handle a few people like this, but not an innundation. There is also something about centralization that reinforces the behavior and the legitimacy of the lifestyle.

A central Mission may be cost effective in the short term, but the very act of providing services and a known safe-haven can encourage more use and increasing numbers.

Trying to play dodge ball with the problem doesn't do anything to deflate the ball.

If the political "leaders" aren't finding better solutions, it is because solutions have to come from the people. Maybe smaller group homes or food kitchens won't pan out, but somewhere, somebody must have an idea that could work.

Also, referring back to an earlier post about 12 packs of Coors going into encampments. While I understand the problems and alcoholism and drug use, I have to imagine myself in a situation like that, where personal possessions are quickly lost or stolen, where even trying to store food is thwarted, and where a majority of people are trying to drive you away. I think I would want a few beers myself, if only to escape for a brief time.

[zenjenn]

I'd have concerns about a homeless shelter in my neighborhood. Go right ahead with the nuclear power plant though.

Then again, I don't know what it is people do here in Huntsville that makes those projects so clean. If the shelter is well-regulated enough to allow that kind of thing to be the worst of it, fair enough.

All I know is I have visited, and lived in, areas in California that boast many shelters and programs for the homeless, and whatever they are doing must be so generous that the people who use the services have no motivation to ever leave. And let's not even talk about the smell. Seriously, there is an odor I once smelled from a homeless man in Westwood that is forever burned into my brain. It actually made me dizzy for a moment.

Now I do feel passionately about social programs, as long as they are good social programs. They need to be well-run so that they actually help people, and not just enable a refuge for sloth, filth, and crime. So if there were a shelter going up in my neighborhood, I'd want to be assured they were the former kind of program and not the latter. A program isn't intrinsically good just because it provides people with stuff. It is more complicated than that.

[Reactionary]

zenjenn - the shelter is managed by an NGO, the City manages the housing projects. The City has mostly enforced and mostly strict rules in the projects. I don't know if they still do it, but IIRC for a while the City provided housing for the minor league HSV Stars baseball team (newer bldgs roughly at Pkwy and Govs).

I heard an interview with Councilman Watson tonight - looks like the lawyers got to him and he won't be opposing the new shelter. He stressed that the HPD has promised to prevent any problems at the new location. The Rescue Mission is moving to University and Sparkman.

So, the value of homes at Lowe Mill just went up. Congrats to the pioneers.

PS - good points harry.

[jciz4u]

I know the Rescue Mission is not a great resource to have right next door; but, I have to tell you: My brother stayed there for a time. We didn't know what else to do, so I actually took him there myself. Did it help? I have no way of knowing. He died of an overdose a few years ago.

I would love to see our tax dollars used for a campus that wasn't right in the middle of town.

For now, I want to let the ppl know that I appreciate the fact that it was there for us when we needed it.

[Reactionary]

jciz4u - God rest his soul. Thank you for sharing with us the human side of the issue.

The biggest problem I see with the shelter (or an approach to homeless / mentally ill in HSV) is that the clients get lumped together - it's tough to provide individual services to that population so the place basically just shelters and feeds them (like warehousing). To be fair, there are some programs, but if someone has no interest or capacity, well, it's sad...

[NicoleC]

I would think knowing where your next meal is coming from would be a pretty big draw, and you aren't going to go any further than you can walk back in a day. In So Cal most shelters don't even open for sleeping unless it's going to be cold that night. You don't see the homeless sleeping all over the city in Huntsville like you do in LA or NYC or San Francisco. I think that's a good thing.

Westwood doesn't have a homeless shelter -- it has the VA building. I used to live near there and there was a constantly rotating supply of homeless vets, many missing arms or legs or eyes otherwise maimed. Very sad. Most of them also seriously mentally ill, but a well behaved and quiet group for the most part. One can't help but smell if you don't have access to showers and sanitation.

As a newcomer to the area, I was also astonished at how clean and neat and nice the projects were in Huntsville. You can't disguise a project -- it looks like nothing else. I am sure some credit belongs with the city, but I think a lot belongs to the residents, too. Every time I drive by I see little touches like flowerbeds outside a doorway, and it shows the pride and care of the residents.

[zenjenn]

I am sure some credit belongs with the city, but I think a lot belongs to the residents

Oh for sure. And I have wondered if the city has a zero-tolerance policy for drug use, criminal activity, etc among residents.

[Reactionary]

zj - pretty much; plus the HPD patrols the projects and pulls over those who loiter / cruise / don't belong - some would call it harassment, but most of the residents appreciate it.

Huntsville Housing Authority (http://www.huntsvillehousing.org/Old_site_6_27_07/mission.html - broken link)