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Hi all. Sorry this is long but I'm going to try to give out as much info as I think someone might need in order for suggestions. I'm posting this here instead of in the Garden forum because I really want info specific to this area. I've studied a lot of info but most from other areas in the US and I always run into some info that won't work in N. ALA.
I purchased the home I'm in 2 yrs ago. Having lived in the forest for decades prior and having no lawn, I never really looked at it close when purchasing this house. Apparently, according to some other neighbors, the guy that lived here before had spread some temporary seed mix just before putting the house on the market so, the lawn looked decent from an uneducated point of view(I actually saw a bag of this stuff last week at the store for the first time... a rye mix I believe).
Anyway, by last summer I could see bare spots all over the place and for the most part, if it weren't for weeds there wouldn't be much green out front. (I'll deal with the deeply shaded back yard later)
I had a large old sugar maple removed that was struggling so I also have a sizeable area of ground stump spread out and various weeds keep popping up in there. A fair amount of erosion in places also.
There is one side of the yard that looks decent and green but it's still mostly weeds. It's also shaded on that side from a very large Crepe Myrtle and there is what appears to be some fescue growing in that area. My neighbor on that side does not mow often at all... and her weeds all spill over the metal edging on that side into my yard also.
Since I have had to cough up multiples of 6 figures over the past 2.5 yrs for various things (since my husband's passing) I'm trying to do most of this on my own.
I'm tired of hiring any service that pretty much just wants to rip off a widow or not show up for the job... and I only have so much readily available cash right now. I did initially get some estimates for scraping, bringing in topsoil and sodding. They are definitely overcharging on the estimates (I've compared the prices they gave me with what neighbors spent on larger lawns) so I am NOT going that route.
So, I don't need yard beautiful but I do need a lawn. I've read and studied SO much, I've learned a good deal in some areas and gotten more confused in others.
So, I probably want to end up with a front lawn of Bermuda (I know it's brown in winter...not a concern for me. All of my other neighbor's beautiful lawns are also)
Oh.. and my yard is green all winter long right now.
So, just to take the SIMPLE and most cost effective way of dealing with it for now, I need to get rid of weeds and I'll spread some sifted topsoil to help leveling and then overseed. At least.. that's what's in my head at this time. Oh.. and maybe some fertilizing but I read that it would be best to fertilize after any new seed is growing up so the weeds don't grow faster and choke the new grass.
What are my steps? What would those of you that know about this suggest?
Times coming up in the next few weeks I would presume to get started.
I appreciate any help I can get....Thanks!!
First get a soil test done so you know if you need to apply lime and anything the soil may need.
You have a couple of options on how to proceed. You have missed the window to seed Bermuda this season. It will be going dormant in about a month to six weeks or so depending on when the temperature drops to fall temperatures. On the other hand, 4 to 6 weeks from now is exactly when you overseed with fescue. Titan fescue is a new variation that does very well in both sun and shade. If you don't want it in your front yard, do your back yard because if it is heavily shaded, bermuda isn't going to grow there.
On the weed management, you have the couple of choices. You can spray the entire yard right now with Roundup (or any brand that is the same glyophosphate) and just kill everything and start from scratch. You could also start spraying for just weeds using something like 2-4-D and Dicamba. Either way, you need to do it now anywhere you are going to overseed the fescue because you need a few weeks in between spraying before you overseed/seed. If you happen to have Dalisgrass infestation in your yard, you need to get on top of it right now before fall weather gets here because it is extremely aggressive and will come back to kill your new grass next summer. You can kill it with Roundup which will also kill everything else in your lawn or you can use Fusilade to specifically target the Dalisgrass and other grassy type weeds.
Next season, if you are going with bermuda in the front, in late april or early may you could spray the front yard with roundup, wait a couple weeks and then plant your bermuda. You could also just plant the bermuda, give it a couple months to get established and you will need to water it a lot. Then start spraying for weeds and get them under control.
So pick a path and go with it. If it were me, I would probably spray for weeds right now, do the soil test, apply lime if needed and fertilizer, overseed the fescue and then in the spring overseed the bermuda and then next summer start managing the weeds. The only thing I would do different on my personal yard is I would do fescue on the entire yard because I despise the dead looking brown bermuda in the winter.
North Alabama is in the transition zone for grasses, meaning that both cool season (e.g., fescue) and warm season (Bermuda, zoysia) will grow here. Problem is, neither does all that great. Bermuda will brown out for about 6 months of the year, and fescue will struggle in the summer, and especially now that average temps year 'round have risen about 2 degrees over the past few years.
Kentucky 31 is the most hardy fescue, but it also has fairly broad blade width, and tends to be clumpy with time. You'll have to overseed each fall. But - it's coming up on fall, and now is the ideal time to seed fescue. There are other finer fescues you can use, such as Rebel, that are made for lawns, but they're a little less hardy and more susceptible to fungus with humid and warm nights beginning in late June.
Bermuda & Zoysia are warm season grasses, but now is not the best time to sod (and both need sodding - you can get Bermuda seed, but the nice fine-bladed lawns you see are hybrid Bermuda. Zoysia also has to be sodded. The Bermuda seed you buy is common Bermuda (unless things have changed since I researched it), and it's basically the stuff that comes up in your flower beds and is hard to get rid of.
I'd spray Roundup for the weeds and everything else, get the lawn aerated or even smoothed if needed, and use Kentucky 31. That's the cheapest way to go and looks pretty good all year.
Kentucky 31 is outdated and no longer preferred. It is still a decent choice but there are far better choices out there now. As mentioned it does not tolerate the heat and dry weather very well. It was developed for lawn use way back in 1942 so the weather has changed quite a bit. There are new variations of fescue developed to be more heat and drought resistant that have came to market in recent years. One of, if not the best, is Titan Rx. It also does well in both sun and shade. If I was going to go with fescue, that would be my choice.
Kentucky 31 is outdated and no longer preferred. It is still a decent choice but there are far better choices out there now. As mentioned it does not tolerate the heat and dry weather very well. It was developed for lawn use way back in 1942 so the weather has changed quite a bit. There are new variations of fescue developed to be more heat and drought resistant that have came to market in recent years. One of, if not the best, is Titan Rx. It also does well in both sun and shade. If I was going to go with fescue, that would be my choice.
I'm not sure Kentucky 31 was ever preferred since the leaves are so coarse, but it's pretty hardy. I've not had fescue for several years - used Rebel then and it would die almost overnight in late June with humidity and attendant fungus. I'm not familiar with Titan Rx.
First get a soil test done so you know if you need to apply lime and anything the soil may need.
You have a couple of options on how to proceed. You have missed the window to seed Bermuda this season. It will be going dormant in about a month to six weeks or so depending on when the temperature drops to fall temperatures. On the other hand, 4 to 6 weeks from now is exactly when you overseed with fescue. Titan fescue is a new variation that does very well in both sun and shade. If you don't want it in your front yard, do your back yard because if it is heavily shaded, bermuda isn't going to grow there.
On the weed management, you have the couple of choices. You can spray the entire yard right now with Roundup (or any brand that is the same glyophosphate) and just kill everything and start from scratch. You could also start spraying for just weeds using something like 2-4-D and Dicamba. Either way, you need to do it now anywhere you are going to overseed the fescue because you need a few weeks in between spraying before you overseed/seed. If you happen to have Dalisgrass infestation in your yard, you need to get on top of it right now before fall weather gets here because it is extremely aggressive and will come back to kill your new grass next summer. You can kill it with Roundup which will also kill everything else in your lawn or you can use Fusilade to specifically target the Dalisgrass and other grassy type weeds.
Next season, if you are going with bermuda in the front, in late april or early may you could spray the front yard with roundup, wait a couple weeks and then plant your bermuda. You could also just plant the bermuda, give it a couple months to get established and you will need to water it a lot. Then start spraying for weeds and get them under control.
So pick a path and go with it. If it were me, I would probably spray for weeds right now, do the soil test, apply lime if needed and fertilizer, overseed the fescue and then in the spring overseed the bermuda and then next summer start managing the weeds. The only thing I would do different on my personal yard is I would do fescue on the entire yard because I despise the dead looking brown bermuda in the winter.
Thank you very much!! This is exactly what I was looking for... what to do/how to do it and in order.
I actually did know that you can't seed Bermuda in the fall and was going to overseed with a little fescue right now but Bermuda in the spring and I didn't realize until you mentioned it that I omitted that part. Actually, the only reason I was going with Bermuda was that I had read on many sites that Bermuda was so aggressive that you didn't usually have to kill off your lawn/weeds totally because it would squeeze out anything else. I was also unsure how to put Bermuda all out front but take care of the area under the Crepe Myrtle that does get shaded.
I don't know if I have Dallisgrass or Crabgrass... I def have one or the other (among many other types) in abundance. I'll have to check that out.
Part of my thing with the weed killers is I do have a lot of critters around and birds and wanted to keep any beneficial bugs around and I reckon they don't survive the round up.
Now I'm wondering tho...if I should kill off everything out there and start fresh if it would be easier (and maybe not too costly) to just have it scraped off and a bunch of good topsoil dropped and take it from there?
I don't mind a brown lawn in winter. Yard beautiful across the street has a brown Zoysia lawn in winter, one yard beside me has a brown lawn in winter (can't recall the grass type they have.. it was a name I'd never heard before) but the rest of the year, they have the most beautiful lawns on the street.
But, after your post I'm probably more inclined toward fescue. I know that Bermuda is controversial with a lot of people.. they hate the brown or the invasiveness of it. It can be so tough that some sites I read actually recommended specific types of lawn mowers for it, etc.
But like I said, I thought I might be able to get away with not having to kill everything off if I put that stuff in during the spring. Oh well.
I think I like your suggestion of killing off the weeds now and seed in the spring tho. Just have to make a final decision on what type of grass.
Sidebar: The company that sodded my neighbors zoysia yard (who has about 4x's the yard as me) quoted me a price for Bermuda 3x's what she paid for her yard 2 yrs ago. Ugh. So far, other's are way up there also. I have found (and verified with others) that being a widow here, almost every service I have dealt with since moving here has either ripped me off or tried to rip me off.
Also, I've had several things done in the past 2 yrs (gas lines in, trees taken out, etc) and every.single.job....has ruined a part of my sprinkler system. It's been ripped apart accidentally about 5x's and now I just had it shut off because it's getting too expensive and now needs a total revamping.
Thanks again!!
North Alabama is in the transition zone for grasses, meaning that both cool season (e.g., fescue) and warm season (Bermuda, zoysia) will grow here. Problem is, neither does all that great. Bermuda will brown out for about 6 months of the year, and fescue will struggle in the summer, and especially now that average temps year 'round have risen about 2 degrees over the past few years.
Kentucky 31 is the most hardy fescue, but it also has fairly broad blade width, and tends to be clumpy with time. You'll have to overseed each fall. But - it's coming up on fall, and now is the ideal time to seed fescue. There are other finer fescues you can use, such as Rebel, that are made for lawns, but they're a little less hardy and more susceptible to fungus with humid and warm nights beginning in late June.
Bermuda & Zoysia are warm season grasses, but now is not the best time to sod (and both need sodding - you can get Bermuda seed, but the nice fine-bladed lawns you see are hybrid Bermuda. Zoysia also has to be sodded. The Bermuda seed you buy is common Bermuda (unless things have changed since I researched it), and it's basically the stuff that comes up in your flower beds and is hard to get rid of.
I'd spray Roundup for the weeds and everything else, get the lawn aerated or even smoothed if needed, and use Kentucky 31. That's the cheapest way to go and looks pretty good all year.
Does Bermuda brown out for 6 months here? Seems my neighbors up the road have a green lawn longer than 6 months with their Bermuda? I'll keep an eye on it this winter and see.
Right now, I'm the only lawn in my immediate vicinity that is green in the winter (and I just suspect it's the weeds, lol.)
So, I wondered if I needed to aerate since the yard had so many bare spots and such or if I should wait until I had a lawn?
It definitely needs smoothing/leveling. I will have to get some good topsoil in regardless of the path I take. If I just kill the yard or have it scraped, I'll have a good amount put down. If I don't get that aggressive with it, I know that you have to take that a little slower and do a bit at a time over time.
So, I'm investigating the fescue varieties and sometimes it just gets more confusing. IF either of you cares to, check out this thread elsewhere with discussion of the Titan and K31 fescues (a little on Bermuda) I would love to hear your thoughts.
Also, keep in mind...I don't need lawn beautiful. I just want something that is presentable and people don't shake their head when they pass by and that doesn't need a lot of attention. I'm not as young as I used to be, lol. https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=12082
Does Bermuda brown out for 6 months here? Seems my neighbors up the road have a green lawn longer than 6 months with their Bermuda? I'll keep an eye on it this winter and see.
Right now, I'm the only lawn in my immediate vicinity that is green in the winter (and I just suspect it's the weeds, lol.)
So, I wondered if I needed to aerate since the yard had so many bare spots and such or if I should wait until I had a lawn?
It definitely needs smoothing/leveling. I will have to get some good topsoil in regardless of the path I take. If I just kill the yard or have it scraped, I'll have a good amount put down. If I don't get that aggressive with it, I know that you have to take that a little slower and do a bit at a time over time.
Thanks!!
Yes, approximately. It depends on when first frost and last frost are. Keep in mind that we can get frost before there's an official freeze. Bermuda will likely be dormant from about mid-October to mid-April, but it could vary a little. My Zoysia doesn't really get going until the end of June, but it "greens up" before that. It likes hot weather. Fescue will stay green all winter unless the temp drops below zero (which doesn't happen very often these days), and it you use enough water, will stay greenish all summer.
I don't think Bermuda will ever get thick enough to get rid of weeds. You'll have to spray something to get rid of weeds, but the treatments from lawn guys isn't all that much. My guy charges about $55 each for 6 treatments a year, which I think is pretty reasonable. My lawn is about 5500 sq ft which is fairly small.
So, I'm investigating the fescue varieties and sometimes it just gets more confusing. IF either of you cares to, check out this thread elsewhere with discussion of the Titan and K31 fescues (a little on Bermuda) I would love to hear your thoughts.
Also, keep in mind...I don't need lawn beautiful. I just want something that is presentable and people don't shake their head when they pass by and that doesn't need a lot of attention. I'm not as young as I used to be, lol. https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=12082
I read that thread. The ones complaining their Titan Rx died out from heat stress were in their first summer after planting the previous fall. I would be interested to know if they had a drought with no irrigation and high temps. I would also like to know if it popped back out after it started raining and the temps lowered. Titan Rx actually grows rhizomes in it's root systems so it will come back out and also spread on it's own. I have Titan Rx and this is the first growing season since I planted last fall and it has not died this summer. It did stop growing so much once the temps hit the 90's and it stopped raining but it is still green. It will start growing really well when the rain starts and temperatures drop later this week. It will stay green all winter as well.
Bermuda will grow dense enough it will choke out most weeds if and only if you maintain it and fertilize regularly but as RocketDawg mentioned, it will be brown approximately 6 months of the year in the exact time frame he mentioned. We are about to have lows in the upper 40's this weekend and that will begin the dormancy process for Bermuda. Unless we bounce back into the mid to upper 80's for highs and mid to upper 60's for lows pretty quick, Bermuda will go dormant until we regularly hit those temperatures next spring.
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