Required to wear a mask after April 9, 2021? (Tuscaloosa, Madison: hotel, home)

[MisterEd51]

People are arguing the wrong point. What is most contentious is the government saying that people still need to wear a mask even after being fully vaccinated. Since there is no scientific evidence that vaccinated people are any danger to anyone else this has greatly upset people. This is especially true because when the so called experts are confronted by this they won't give a direct and definitive response. A lot of people like myself have taken the attitude of defiance to whatever the government says now because they no longer make any sense.


BTW, the government still wanting everyone to wear a mask may actually be their attempt to avoid confusion and prevent unvaccinated people from going maskless. Or is it they really don't know and are winging it? Who knows.

[OmarLittle]

Originally Posted by MisterEd51

What is most contentious is the government saying that people still need to wear a mask even after being fully vaccinated. Since there is no scientific evidence that vaccinated people are any danger to anyone else this has greatly upset people.

Not true. The reason for the CDC recommendation that everyone still wear masks is because there is a small chance that vaccinated individuals can acquire asymptomatic or minimally symptomatic infections, and then transmit to other (unvaccinated) individuals.

What is that chance? Not clear just yet because the clinical trials used symptomatic infections as an endpoint and did not measure asymptomatic infections. This will become clear, however, through additional follow-up of trial participants and as large proportions of people in certain regions become vaccinated (except in Alabama, of course).

[MisterEd51]

Originally Posted by OmarLittle

Not true. The reason for the CDC recommendation that everyone still wear masks is because there is a small chance that vaccinated individuals can acquire asymptomatic or minimally symptomatic infections, and then transmit to other (unvaccinated) individuals.

What is that chance? Not clear just yet because the clinical trials used symptomatic infections as an endpoint and did not measure asymptomatic infections. This will become clear, however, through additional follow-up of trial participants and as large proportions of people in certain regions become vaccinated (except in Alabama, of course).

You imply that we all need to wear a mask until all the risks are known. That might takes years of study. Face it there is no such thing as a world with zero risks. I am no longer going to wear a mask unless I am told to. You are free to wear a mask as long as you want or until Dr. Fauci says not to.

[MaricopaCountyResident]

Originally Posted by MisterEd51

You imply that we all need to wear a mask until all the risks are known. That might takes years of study. Face it there is no such thing as a world with zero risks. I am no longer going to wear a mask unless I am told to. You are free to wear a mask as long as you want or until Dr. Fauci says not to.

Yeah, years of study mean masks forever. It means wearing a mask on the plane forever and only being able to lower it briefly while eating and drinking. It means never going back to the way our lives were up to 2019. I remember when many people said all these precautions were only temporary, but I am seeing more and more that they are becoming permanent.

Let's face it, there is no going back to normal. I imagine in the year 2030, 10 million Americans will be banned from flying as well.

[dwhisent]

One thing that bugs me is that, with all the talk about vaccine passports, vaccination required to cruise, etc., etc., no one is addressing the folks that are unable to take the vaccine. My wife is one of those, as she had a severe reaction to the pneumonia shot, and her doctors have all advised her to not get the covid vaccine (and indeed, one of the questions on the vaccine sign-up is whether you have ever had a reaction to a vaccination). Can she ever fly again or cruise again? I know she is not alone. Has anyone heard anything about the folks that fall into this category?

[harry chickpea]

Originally Posted by dwhisent

One thing that bugs me is that, with all the talk about vaccine passports, vaccination required to cruise, etc., etc., no one is addressing the folks that are unable to take the vaccine. My wife is one of those, as she had a severe reaction to the pneumonia shot, and her doctors have all advised her to not get the covid vaccine (and indeed, one of the questions on the vaccine sign-up is whether you have ever had a reaction to a vaccination). Can she ever fly again or cruise again? I know she is not alone. Has anyone heard anything about the folks that fall into this category?

Most of that advice is CYA (Conserve Your (legally accessible) Assets ) I had a reaction to a shot a long time ago. They made me wait 30 minutes instead of 15 before leaving the site. Whatever.

I'll leave it to the doctors to explain exactly why they respond the way they do. Each person is different and reacts differently. Everything in life is a risk/reward balance. If there ever is herd immunity, the risks to those who cannot be vaccinated is minimal. Frankly, I doubt we will get there. In your wife's case, if I were her, I would not let the doc off the hook. What are my chances of getting covid? What are my chances of death? What is the risk of the shot? what are the chances of death?

[dwhisent]

I guess I should have been more clear, the reaction she had was VERY serious and has resulted in two surgeries in the last year. It is not really a question of taking these doctors' advice, it is good. My question is what will her situation going to be, as she won't be able to get a "vaccine passport". Again, no one seems to be saying anything about this.

[harry chickpea]

Originally Posted by dwhisent

I guess I should have been more clear, the reaction she had was VERY serious and has resulted in two surgeries in the last year. It is not really a question of taking these doctors' advice, it is good. My question is what will her situation going to be, as she won't be able to get a "vaccine passport". Again, no one seems to be saying anything about this.

OK, the docs' advice is prudent and to be followed. It is time to recognize that we all die, we all have various vulnerabilities, and that no doctor, government, preacher, or shaman can prevent that. A friend who was in a physical rehab center when covid started eventually recognized that he wanted to go home, that he was going to die soon anyway, and that the isolation was making his last days miserable and meaningless.

Your wife's situation will continue to be one of living on the edge, hoping that she does not get infected, and if she does that it is not serious. That is entirely possible. It is also possible that infection could be fatal.

We all care for and try to protect the ones that we love. Sometimes that simply is not possible and we need to be humble, and we also need to recognize that the institutions we trust have limited power as well.

Your wife will not be able to get a vaccine passport - FOR HER OWN SAFETY. Would you have it some other way?

[writerwife]

My nephew and his entire household have covid right now. Very sick at the moment. He's had all his vaccinations.

[dijkstra]

Originally Posted by dwhisent

I guess I should have been more clear, the reaction she had was VERY serious and has resulted in two surgeries in the last year. It is not really a question of taking these doctors' advice, it is good. My question is what will her situation going to be, as she won't be able to get a "vaccine passport". Again, no one seems to be saying anything about this.

I really don't think the "vaccine passport" thing is going to fly. At least not in the US. There are those that have won every legal challenge concerning "required" vaccinations in the past such as those "required" for public schools. They sue the school system, win, and don't have to vaccinate their children and they get to go to school. That is pretty much a precedent that has already been set and could be used to challenge "vaccine passports." The other thing is there are millions of us who actually caught covid and are have been immune ever since. Some of us caught it up to a year ago and are still immune. We don't need a vaccination shot so how do we apply for and get a "vaccine passport" or exemption? I can actually answer that, we pool our resources into a class action and sue. If the government wants to throw millions away trying to enact a "vaccine passport" and fighting the court challenges for years only to lose in the end anyway, so be it.