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As for the buying part, the way I understood as it was explained to me (I might have been wrong): the seller's agent won't deal with you as direct buyer (no buyer's agent).
A listing agent, an agent for the seller, mostly will work with you as a customer if you don't have a buyers agent. You won't be their client but they will assist you in writing out an offer and such. Some listing agents won't but most will I am sure. It is their personal choice.
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More like to the LINICX point - No realtor will show a FSBO to a potential buyer because they will not split a commission.
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And Elizabeth_G I am happy to show FSBO's and find that most sellers are more than willing to pay a buyers agent a fee. I've been offered as low as 1% up to 4%.. So there, confusing.
A Realtor will show a FSBO as long as the seller agrees to pay the buyers agents fee. That is the easiest way to explain it.
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But after reading all this, the bottom line is I - at least - SHOULD be able to buy/sell a house without a realtor's representation. As I said, I might reconsider and get a realtor. I just wanted to weigh my options at this time.
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Thanks all
You definitely can go at it without a Realtor but if you do, then make sure you have a good real estate attorney to walk you through the process.
Last edited by HsvMike; 03-03-2009 at 05:00 PM..
Reason: fixing quotes
Oh boy, this thread is timely for me. We are trying to find a home. My husband and I have argued about this soooo much. Personally I don't care how a deal comes to the table as long as I get a house I love at a fair price. BUT - it didn't take long sorting through the MLS to become really frustrated with the lack of available information. Just the missing-address thing is enough. Besides wanting to know the neighborhood a listing is in, I have more specific questions. Has the home ever been smoked in? Is there an HOA, and if so is it optional? Are there maintenance issues? What year was the home built? All the information that is not on valleymls.com. So to find out, I was emailing all the various listing agents individually to ask these questions. It is a major time suck for everyone involved.
Then you want to talk about actually seeing the homes. We are from 2 hours out of town, and have to set aside a day at a time to look at houses. To see 5 homes that I want to see on one trip there, I have to call 5 agents and schedule an appointment with each one for the same day. That is impossible to do. But let's say it works out and I have 5 appointments with 5 agents for the same day. I have to figure out how long it will take to see each home, and then drive from one to the next, sometimes crisscrossing the city because that's the only way I could arrange it with the listing agent's schedule. THEN because I either over- or under-estimate the time needed for each house, I either end up making the agent wait on me, or we end up sitting in the next home's driveway for 30 minutes because we got there too early. This with a 3-year-old and a newborn, who are screaming and cranky because they've had enough of being in the car seat already.
This process is either really difficult, or I'm doing it all wrong.
But now, my husband - he just doesn't get it, in my opinion. Because he thinks I'm enjoying this. He's fussing at me for doing nothing but sit and look at listings all day long. He doesn't understand that I have to look at 500 listings to get a shorter list of 25 to look at just to find 1 we might remotely be interested in putting an offer on.
THEN I'm really starting to worry because I have all these questions about the actual sale process, how various things are supposed to happen and when. How do we structure a written offer? Who is supposed to hold our earnest money? Where does the contract come from? Are we going to get majorly screwed because we missed something in the paperwork we should have known about? And my better half just sort of pats me on the hand and says, "there, there." Like the Real Estate Fairy is just going to fly down and bestow a house on us.
Whenever I have brought up getting a buyers' agent, he says, "Why are you so set on getting an agent?" and I can't figure out why he is so set against it. All the houses we have looked at except one are listed with an agent anyway. But he says he doesn't trust a buyer's agent to actually look out for us. I know that there's a possibility a buyer's agent may not fully protect our interests, but the listing agent and seller definitely won't. They each have to look out for themselves. Right?
I'm really feeling the pressure to find something soon because he starts his job in a week and a half and we have nowhere up there to live. I don't have him fully on board about getting an agent, but he has agreed to do it just to end the arguments. So I got in contact with a member of this forum who I thought from her posts might be helpful and honest - and you know what? Talking with her so far has been great. I'm looking forward to seeing homes with her. I think she's going to be great to work with, and I think she is going to take care of us.
This is one concern my husband has: how the buyer's agent gets paid. He is worried that, because it's based on a percentage of the sale price, that our agent will try to force the sale to go for more money. I'm just not seeing that as a concern because no one can make us offer more or pay more than we want to. He's also said that it's as likely the seller would slip an agent (hypothetically, not this realtor in particular!) some cash to force the sale to the seller's benefit, as it is that someone would try to fleece us outright. Unfortunately I'm not a lawyer and I'm not familiar enough with the laws of the state or the local customs to be able to spot problems until after they've already bitten us.
We're such extreme DIY-ers that he really wants to go it alone, and I'm not just set on using an agent myself. If we buy FSBO, we'll just use a lawyer and be done with it. But seeing as how most people list with an agent to start with, I'm not seeing where we are putting ourselves at any real risk by using an agent of our own. I'm also seeing a lot of benefit just in terms of convenience. This particular person has already gone way above and beyond to find us listings for the type of home we want, and we haven't even signed an agreement yet. So if someone's willing to trust me that way, I'm willing to trust her back.
OK, sorry if I hijacked this thread. Just finished up a 2-hour argument about it, so it's on my mind.
So can anyone discuss a situation where it's unnecessary or a bad idea to use a buyer's agent?
I live in Nashville but saw your question & thought I would share my experience of choosing to buy a home without a realtor.
To me, this day & age, there is a plethora of information available online that can make having a realtor obsolete. I checked out listings online & could take virtual tours & see lots of photos to narrow down & rule out places that I didn't want to waste my time visiting in person.
Once I found the home I wanted to buy I made an offer & it was accepted. The seller actually said that he accepted my low offer (12k off of asking price) solely because I didn't have a realtor & they wouldn't have to be paying commission.
When you bought your home, did the seller have it listed with a realtor already?
We are using the MLS extensively, too, but my experience has been that the pictures often misrepresent the actual condition of the home. We found some that were everything we were looking for, until we drove there in person and saw the rotting staircase treads, termite damage, rooms full of leftover junk that the owner was unwilling to move, master closet finished out with mismatched plywood, etc. (In the high $200s - lower $300s price range!) Many homes just don't have lots of photos, or photos of the right things. Today we saw a home with a large pink whirlpool tub and a giant hole in the roof. No one is going to put photos of that stuff online.
Oh boy, this thread is timely for me. We are trying to find a home. My husband and I have argued about this soooo much. Personally I don't care how a deal comes to the table as long as I get a house I love at a fair price. BUT - it didn't take long sorting through the MLS to become really frustrated with the lack of available information. Just the missing-address thing is enough. Besides wanting to know the neighborhood a listing is in, I have more specific questions. Has the home ever been smoked in? Is there an HOA, and if so is it optional? Are there maintenance issues? What year was the home built? All the information that is not on valleymls.com. So to find out, I was emailing all the various listing agents individually to ask these questions. It is a major time suck for everyone involved.
Then you want to talk about actually seeing the homes. We are from 2 hours out of town, and have to set aside a day at a time to look at houses. To see 5 homes that I want to see on one trip there, I have to call 5 agents and schedule an appointment with each one for the same day. That is impossible to do. But let's say it works out and I have 5 appointments with 5 agents for the same day. I have to figure out how long it will take to see each home, and then drive from one to the next, sometimes crisscrossing the city because that's the only way I could arrange it with the listing agent's schedule. THEN because I either over- or under-estimate the time needed for each house, I either end up making the agent wait on me, or we end up sitting in the next home's driveway for 30 minutes because we got there too early. This with a 3-year-old and a newborn, who are screaming and cranky because they've had enough of being in the car seat already.
This process is either really difficult, or I'm doing it all wrong.
But now, my husband - he just doesn't get it, in my opinion. Because he thinks I'm enjoying this. He's fussing at me for doing nothing but sit and look at listings all day long. He doesn't understand that I have to look at 500 listings to get a shorter list of 25 to look at just to find 1 we might remotely be interested in putting an offer on.
THEN I'm really starting to worry because I have all these questions about the actual sale process, how various things are supposed to happen and when. How do we structure a written offer? Who is supposed to hold our earnest money? Where does the contract come from? Are we going to get majorly screwed because we missed something in the paperwork we should have known about? And my better half just sort of pats me on the hand and says, "there, there." Like the Real Estate Fairy is just going to fly down and bestow a house on us.
Whenever I have brought up getting a buyers' agent, he says, "Why are you so set on getting an agent?" and I can't figure out why he is so set against it. All the houses we have looked at except one are listed with an agent anyway. But he says he doesn't trust a buyer's agent to actually look out for us. I know that there's a possibility a buyer's agent may not fully protect our interests, but the listing agent and seller definitely won't. They each have to look out for themselves. Right?
I'm really feeling the pressure to find something soon because he starts his job in a week and a half and we have nowhere up there to live. I don't have him fully on board about getting an agent, but he has agreed to do it just to end the arguments. So I got in contact with a member of this forum who I thought from her posts might be helpful and honest - and you know what? Talking with her so far has been great. I'm looking forward to seeing homes with her. I think she's going to be great to work with, and I think she is going to take care of us.
This is one concern my husband has: how the buyer's agent gets paid. He is worried that, because it's based on a percentage of the sale price, that our agent will try to force the sale to go for more money. I'm just not seeing that as a concern because no one can make us offer more or pay more than we want to. He's also said that it's as likely the seller would slip an agent (hypothetically, not this realtor in particular!) some cash to force the sale to the seller's benefit, as it is that someone would try to fleece us outright. Unfortunately I'm not a lawyer and I'm not familiar enough with the laws of the state or the local customs to be able to spot problems until after they've already bitten us.
We're such extreme DIY-ers that he really wants to go it alone, and I'm not just set on using an agent myself. If we buy FSBO, we'll just use a lawyer and be done with it. But seeing as how most people list with an agent to start with, I'm not seeing where we are putting ourselves at any real risk by using an agent of our own. I'm also seeing a lot of benefit just in terms of convenience. This particular person has already gone way above and beyond to find us listings for the type of home we want, and we haven't even signed an agreement yet. So if someone's willing to trust me that way, I'm willing to trust her back.
OK, sorry if I hijacked this thread. Just finished up a 2-hour argument about it, so it's on my mind.
So can anyone discuss a situation where it's unnecessary or a bad idea to use a buyer's agent?
"....become really frustrated with the lack of available information."
You can thank the NAMLS for this.
"....you want to talk about actually seeing the homes."
The second paragraph is only a problem if you want to see the inside of the home and you aren't working with your own realtor. So, why don't you get a realtor to show you the homes?
"He is worried that, because it's based on a percentage of the sale price, that our agent will try to force the sale to go for more money.....He's also said that it's as likely the seller would slip an agent (hypothetically, not this realtor in particular!) some cash to force the sale to the seller's benefit,"
Man, your husband sounds paranoid. What's his blood pressure?
"His job starts in a week and a half an we have no place to live in Huntsville.
This with a 3-year-old and a newborn...."
Sorry you are having such a stressful time. I think DH is making this much more difficult than it has to be for you. JMHO
Why not just hire a realtor or buyer's agent to do all that for you? The listing realtors do have to give a % of the commission to any other realtor that sells the house. If 99.9% of the houses you have looked at are listed by a realtor then there is a commission involved regardless if you have a realtor helping you. You aren't going to get a discount. It is their job to find you a home that meets your requirements, set up a showing and they can show the house without the homeowner's realtor being there.
When the house is sold your realtor/buyer's agent receives a portion of the listing realtor's commission. You are acting as your own realtor/BA and you are not going to get a listing realtor to cut their commission for you.
I am not a realtor/BA but I did use one when I moved from FL to AL. I offered a lower price and received a counter offer which I accepted.
"....become really frustrated with the lack of available information."
You can thank the NAMLS for this.
Yes the non-public addresses and lack of any public sales data for comparables makes it difficult to go it alone without a Realtor. NAMLS no doubt has designed their rules this way to encourage and generate business for their members.
On the other hand, once you have a buyers agent it is their fiduciary duty to provide ‘customers and clients’ with all needed and available information and some agents have automated much of this process via private websites effectively eliminating many of these information barriers. So I would definitely concur with Keeper and suggest getting a buyers agent.
"....become really frustrated with the lack of available information."
You can thank the NAMLS for this.
"....you want to talk about actually seeing the homes."
The second paragraph is only a problem if you want to see the inside of the home and you aren't working with your own realtor. So, why don't you get a realtor to show you the homes?
"He is worried that, because it's based on a percentage of the sale price, that our agent will try to force the sale to go for more money.....He's also said that it's as likely the seller would slip an agent (hypothetically, not this realtor in particular!) some cash to force the sale to the seller's benefit,"
Man, your husband sounds paranoid. What's his blood pressure?
"His job starts in a week and a half an we have no place to live in Huntsville.
This with a 3-year-old and a newborn...."
This is nuts.
His blood pressure is high. Yes, it is nuts. He's pretty nuts about the whole thing. Like I said, we are going with a buyer's agent that I really like and who has been really helpful. So far she's made the hunt a LOT less stressful. Even being an extreme DIY person, I'm not willing to do this alone when we aren't taking any risks to use a professional.
But now, my husband - he just doesn't get it, in my opinion. Because he thinks I'm enjoying this. He's fussing at me for doing nothing but sit and look at listings all day long. He doesn't understand that I have to look at 500 listings to get a shorter list of 25 to look at just to find 1 we might remotely be interested in putting an offer on.
I don't know what to tell you on the buyers agent thing, it is a personal decision, but I can offer a bit of advice on the house hunting process...
Why not have your hubby keep the kids for the day and go look at 500 listings and only bring the family when you have your list narrowed down to 25?
My dh doesn't care either, he tells me I am much pickier(it is a woman thing) and I think it was after the second home that I realized it was much easier that way. The first two times after about 20 houses I would look over and his eyes were glazed over So now I look and drive myself nuts and then when it is narrowed down to a few, I bring in the troops.
I hope it all works out and you are able to get what you want soon.
HSV_Mike said: A Realtor will show a FSBO as long as the seller agrees to pay the buyers agents fee. That is the easiest way to explain it.
OK, I've read everyone's posts, there are pros and cons to having a realtor, but someone please explain this to me: why myself as a FSBO seller have to pay commission to the buyer's agent?! When I asked around, I was told "because he is (indirectly) helping you sell by helping his client find and buy your house". It sounds to me like I am penalized for not having a seller's agent, and I should pay (give away) my share of savings, i.e. the fee I would've paid to my realtor had I had one.
The way I see a real estate transaction with realtors going is each party hires his agent for a fee, if I am a FSBO (my own agent) shouldn't the fee stay in my pocket? and not end up in the buyer's agent's pocket? What's wrong with this picture? Thanks
P.S. Again, I do not discount a realtor's job, but If one decides to go without, is, among other reasons, because they want to put those savings toward the downpayment/principal/improvement (their pocket).
HSV_Mike said: A Realtor will show a FSBO as long as the seller agrees to pay the buyers agents fee. That is the easiest way to explain it.
OK, I've read everyone's posts, there are pros and cons to having a realtor, but someone please explain this to me: why myself as a FSBO seller have to pay commission to the buyer's agent?! When I asked around, I was told "because he is (indirectly) helping you sell by helping his client find and buy your house". It sounds to me like I am penalized for not having a seller's agent, and I should pay (give away) my share of savings, i.e. the fee I would've paid to my realtor had I had one.
The way I see a real estate transaction with realtors going is each party hires his agent for a fee, if I am a FSBO (my own agent) shouldn't the fee stay in my pocket? and not end up in the buyer's agent's pocket? What's wrong with this picture? Thanks
P.S. Again, I do not discount a realtor's job, but If one decides to go without, is, among other reasons, because they want to put those savings toward the downpayment/principal/improvement (their pocket).
You are still saving money.
If you hire a realtor, it is in your contract that 2-5% will go to the buyers agent and 2-5% will go to your sellers agent(the % depends on where you live). So if you sell to someone who has a buyers agent, then you pay the 2-5% to their agent, but not the 2-5% to a sellers agent.
Bottom line, there are 2 fees when selling, buyers agent and sellers agent, you can act as one, but typically you can't act as both
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So now I look and drive myself nuts and then when it is narrowed down to a few, I bring in the troops.
