More Details on Discovery Middle Shooting (fit in, violent crime, houses)

[tammie2]

Originally Posted by ConfusedinMadison

Padmaster I agree with your comments.

My issue is with the School Administration. We have a student that was identified as a behaviorial problem associated with gang activities. As a result, this student is placed in the Madison City Alternative School (Patriot Academey) to isolate him from normal, law abiding students. After a couple months attending this "Alternative" School some "wise" School Administrator then determines its time for him to reenter a normal school environment so they decide to transition this "problem" child to a normal school NOT in his school district (Liberty Middle). AND then LESS then 45 days after attending Discovery Middle School he walks up behind a student and cowardly shoots him in the back of the head in cold blood.

Two bits of food for thought

1) If he was transitioned(which I don't know), this was done with hundreds, maybe even thousands before him without incident.

2) What if it was your child? What if they made one mistake? Would you want them to be a pyriah for the rest of their school years or would you want them to be given a second chance? Honestly, even good parents can have children that make mistakes.

I am not defending what was done, not saying that I condone the shooting or believe this was a minor mishap that deserved a second chance, just that we don't know the full story, we don't know what he was put in Liberty for, if it was drugs, I could see how the school would feel they were making the right choice by transitioning him. I am not an expert, just a fellow parent that hopes people can see both sides at this juncture. My heart goes out to the Brown family, that have a lot to deal with. However, moving forward placing blame isn't going to help anyone.

[ConfusedinMadison]

I play an active role in my child's life so I would know if my child was involved with drugs and gangs. I would not wait for him to get caught by school officials and then plead with them not to expel my innocent child who made a mistake.

However, if my child committed an offense that calls for expolsion then I would expect for him or her to be expelled.

[tammie2]

Originally Posted by ConfusedinMadison

I play an active role in my child's life so I would know if my child was involved with drugs and gangs. I would not wait for him to get caught by school officials and then plead with them not to expel my innocent child who made a mistake.

However, if my child committed an offense that calls for expolsion then I would expect for him or her to be expelled.

Kids from good/involved parents get in trouble too. I hope you never have to eat those words.

I try not to be overly judgemental because I am not there, my kids are 6-1/2 and 9, I don't *think* they will get into trouble, I *think* I will know everything in their lives, but you aren't with your teens 24/7, sometimes you have to let go and hope that you have taught them well enough.

I know my mom stayed on me something terrible(and I was a good kid to start with), I had a 12:30 curfew on New Year's Eve at 17 yrs old, it was awful as a teen-but now I appreciate it. Even with all of the freedoms that were taken from me I still managed to do a few things that would have made my mother cringe, things that I would be horrified to find my kids doing.

So be careful you don't fall off your high horse.

As for what calls for expulsion, who is to say the knife rumor is true and drugs are typically not a reason for expulsion unless it is a repeat offense. Also, where do you want to send these kids? military? the moon(this is Hsv afterall )? another state? prison? reform school for the rest of their lives? As someone else pointed out, the state is required to educate them.

It is a fine line, I know good kids can get wrapped up in a bad act and I would hate to see the rest of their lives ruined for it, it is sad that something wasn't done, however I don't know if starting to lock kids up and throw away the key is the answer.

[marmac]

-------" I know good kids can get wrapped up in a bad act "---

When kids start to be " wannabe" gang members and get caught selling drugs, shouldn't a " light bulb" go off in mommy and daddy's head?

No, this isn't a case of a kid just suddenly pulling pranks.

Will mommy and daddy be defending their son again ?
Maybe asking for community service as a punishment ?

[tammie2]

Originally Posted by marmac

-------" I know good kids can get wrapped up in a bad act "---

When kids start to be " wannabe" gang members and get caught selling drugs, shouldn't a " light bulb" go off in mommy and daddy's head?

No, this isn't a case of a kid just suddenly pulling pranks.

Will mommy and daddy be defending their son again ?
Maybe asking for community service as a punishment ?

I am not talking about the gang activity or the shooting, I am talking about the INITIAL offense of drugs. No, I really hope that my kids don't get involved in drugs(or any other illegal/immoral activity), I really hope that I am a more observant parent than that, HOWEVER, good parents do have children that stray and anyone who tells you differently is lying. It is very sad that it came to this, but what about many others that were able to turn themselves around?

I know I went to school with people that did drugs, I never did, but I had friends that did. Most of their parents believed their stories, it is natural for parents to want to believe their children(especially when they were never given a reason to doubt them before), even if the reasoning isn't completely sound, even the most diligent of parents can miss something. The kids I knew had clueless parents, and they were always around, they weren't deadbeat uncaring parents, the kids weren't bad kids, they were National Honor Society, band members, sports players, club officers, honor students, we were all "good kids." Now as adults they are responsible and productive members of society-and drug free. It is stupid kid stuff, drinking, drugs....wanting to be "grown up" and not really knowing what that means. I am not saying that drugs were the correct thing to do, just that sometimes good kids do bad things.

[julilg]

Originally Posted by marmac

-------" I know good kids can get wrapped up in a bad act "---

When kids start to be " wannabe" gang members and get caught selling drugs, shouldn't a " light bulb" go off in mommy and daddy's head?

No, this isn't a case of a kid just suddenly pulling pranks.

Will mommy and daddy be defending their son again ?
Maybe asking for community service as a punishment ?

We don't know the history of these families, what "light bulbs" did or didn't go off. Far more kids who dabble in drugs have no future trouble than become violent. We don't know what the families of the boys in this incident may have been advised or may have tried to do to help their sons.

Have you ever tried to get help for a friend, family member or child for mental health, substance abuse, delinquency,...? For the most part real help is non-existent. Except maybe for a few families that have virtually unlimited cash to pay for private services. Even then it's rarely possible to "force" treatment and there is never a guarantee that treatment will be effective. Affordable and public services are woefully inadequate; they often have months, even years long waiting lists. Courts generally won't mandate treatment nor bump someone up the wait list unless it's been proven that they are a serious threat, which usually means after a horrible tragedy. Minors in possession of drugs or a knife, sadly is not uncommon, so in and of itself does not constitute being a serious threat.

Generally speaking, the public does not willingly support services for what is perceived as others’ "personal problems”. We prefer tax revenue be spent on stuff we can see and know will benefit us directly, like roads and parks. We donate more time and money to causes like cancer research because anyone can get cancer, because my loved one was cured, etc. But, mental health is not my problem, I’ll never be crazy, psychology is quackery, drug addicts chose to use, etc. Then a tragedy occurs and we blame everyone else for not having done more to prevent it.

Before anyone argue that using drugs was (prior to addiction) a choice and that we need roads and cancer research - I agree ! My point is that we shouldn’t be so quick to cast blame when we don’t know what was or wasn’t done to help any person and we can’t expect to prevent or cure anything that is insufficiently funded.

[dougb256]

Originally Posted by padmaster

Have you watched any programs on TV lately that our kids are likely watching? Southpark? Bevis and Butthead? NOTHING shocks our kids anymore. They are bombarded with violence everyday.....It's the norm for them.

I don't know when you were a kid, but when I was a kid we regularly watched The Three Stooges, Rat Patrol, Gunsmoke, any and ever movie about cowboys vs Indians, WWII movies, etc.

OTOH, we also watched Leave It To Beaver, My Three Sons, Daddy Knows Best, etc.

TV may play some part of it, but I think it's more a thing of never learning responsibility and having to deal with the consequences of your actions.

[Huntsville82]

Originally Posted by tammie2

Two bits of food for thought

1) If he was transitioned(which I don't know), this was done with hundreds, maybe even thousands before him without incident.

2) What if it was your child? What if they made one mistake? Would you want them to be a pyriah for the rest of their school years or would you want them to be given a second chance? Honestly, even good parents can have children that make mistakes.

I am not defending what was done, not saying that I condone the shooting or believe this was a minor mishap that deserved a second chance, just that we don't know the full story, we don't know what he was put in Liberty for, if it was drugs, I could see how the school would feel they were making the right choice by transitioning him. I am not an expert, just a fellow parent that hopes people can see both sides at this juncture. My heart goes out to the Brown family, that have a lot to deal with. However, moving forward placing blame isn't going to help anyone.

I don't think their issue is with him being transitioned back into the normal school population, but rather that he was not transitioned back into HIS own school population. It's hard enough to make a transition like that, so you would think that putting him into a completely new school environment would make it even more difficult.

[Huntsville82]

Originally Posted by dougb256

I don't know when you were a kid, but when I was a kid we regularly watched The Three Stooges, Rat Patrol, Gunsmoke, any and ever movie about cowboys vs Indians, WWII movies, etc.

OTOH, we also watched Leave It To Beaver, My Three Sons, Daddy Knows Best, etc.

TV may play some part of it, but I think it's more a thing of never learning responsibility and having to deal with the consequences of your actions.

There is a HUGE difference in the type of violence kids see today in gaming and the movies versus what we watched when we were kids. The blood and gore is much more realistic. Gaming puts the child in the situation and has them make a decision whether to kill another player, then the child does it and gets high-fives from his buddies for doing it.

I don't think gaming and the movies are completely to blame, but I think the industry needs to step up and take some responsibility for the product that they are putting out there. But, ultimately, it's the parent's responsibility as to whether this garbage is allowed in their house or not. I have girls, so I don't think it will be as much of an issue (seeing how Snow White frightens them now), but if I had boys I would NOT allow them to play some of the crap that is on the market. We have friends that play some of the Call of Duty games, and they say that when you play online you can hear all the little kids in the background playing (they also were talking about how rough the kid's mouths were, too...but that is another topic).

It's even on some of the cable channels. My husband turned on Sparticus a few weeks ago, and I was shocked at how violent it was (and how realistic the blood and gore was)....and I think it was re-run during the weekend daytime hours, as well. You can't tell me that kids didn't watch that in some house.

[guxu]

Spartacus is rated as M (Mature), as well as some Call of Duty versions. I know some boys in DMS playing Call of Duty like crazy.