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Old 04-04-2009, 07:12 PM
 
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No, twinprism, not me. I don't want to lose the lovely views I enjoy on my morning commute, don't want to see sprawl develop between N. Bingham County and Idaho Falls.
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Old 04-05-2009, 02:25 AM
 
383 posts, read 408,055 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twinprism View Post
Do you guys cheerleading Idaho Falls growth want to look like Meridian? Not that I'm jealous of growth, quite the contrary.

Here's some healthy counterpoint from a Pocatello perspective, from a local real estate agency which I won't quote my source because I don't want it to look like an advertisement and this information is widely available.

"Pocatello traditionally enjoys a steady annual growth rate of about one percent—wonderful for attracting new businesses while allowing for appropriate planning and infrastructure growth. Pocatello has been spared the explosive growing pains of other Idaho communities in recent years, growing at a manageable pace while retaining its "small town" character. Refer to the chart below to analyze trends in growth over the past century in both Pocatello and Bannock County."

Census Bannock co. Pocatello change %change
2000 75,565 51,466 +5,386 +1.2%
1990 66,026 46,080 -260 -0.1%
1980 65,421 46,340 +6,304 +1.6%
1970 52,200 40,036 +11,502 +4.0%
1960 49,342 28,534 +2,403 +0.9%
1950 41,745 26,131 +7,998 +4.4%
1940 34,759 18,133 +1,662 +1.0%
1930 31,266 16,471 +1,470 +1.0%
1920 27,532 15,001 +5,891 +6.5%
1910 19,242 9,110 +5,064 +12.5%
1900 11,702 4,046 - -

Current census estimates show current Pocatello population approaching 55,000 with adjoining Chubbuck at about 10,000
Oh dear lord no, I am not advocating the sprawl that is West Boise (Meridian). Meridian will never have what Boise or for that matter, Idaho Falls has. Idaho Falls will have its historic downtown, it's Taylor Crossing, it's Snake River Landing, the Greenbelt, it has a distinct difference from any other city or town on this side of the state. Meridian on the other hand, if I was a tourist and entered Meridian from Boise, I wouldn't even know that I'd left Boise. (Hence the West Boise remark)

However, it is nice to see new places to shop and eat, new recreational opportunities, the chance to see more concerts and plays, better job opportunities, ect. This cannot happen without growth!

Idaho Falls isn't growing all that fast, 3% annual growth rate on average, and it hasn't been that hard for the city to keep up with infrastructure either. (Same story as Poky) There are some needs as far as roads needing widened, and water/sewer replacements but that goes for almost any city regardless of size or growth.

I believe that Idaho Falls will become more than just another ho-hum city with everything that every other city has. Just look at Snake River Landing, that development will be beautiful once it is all done. Check out Taylor Crossing, what other city has a huge a** fountain with an eagle bronze sculpture mounted on it? I see tourists down there on a fairly constant basis just staring at it.

I am confident that our city leaders will do the right thing for the city and if it booms, they will take their time and do things the way they should be done. Just my two cents though.

By the way, speaking of Taylor Crossing, there has been some excavating going on at the Eagle View Plaza site. A sign of things to come maybe?
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Old 04-05-2009, 02:41 AM
 
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Fountains aren't too uncommon. I work in IF and drive all over for my job there, but manage to stay off the freeway for the most part, and rarely chance upon Taylor Crossing. I love it here, but as fountains go this one doesn't inspire any awe for me.
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Old 04-05-2009, 02:55 AM
 
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Smile TC Fountain Has a Very Specific Reason for Its Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by norcalmom101 View Post
Fountains aren't too uncommon. I work in IF and drive all over for my job there, but manage to stay off the freeway for the most part, and rarely chance upon Taylor Crossing. I love it here, but as fountains go this one doesn't inspire any awe for me.
Fountains aren't too uncommon in certain states like CA. However, they are a rather new addition to ID. Many gave McNeil/the Walker Brothers a lot of grief for having the water fountain and other bronze pieces done that they did for T.C.

I can understand your point, NCM101, given some of the fountains I've seen in CA, FL and elsewhere. However, the history of the the bridge at Eagle Rock (Idaho Falls) is captured in that particular fountain. The Eagles on the Rock, being protected by the Mtn. Lion (I believe) is to tell the story of how the Walkers grandfather became what he was, when Eagle Rock - now Idaho Falls- started to become a center for transportation and trade.

Honestly, I don't know if the Walkers went for design, beauty, history or a combination of all. I do know a different fountain located elsewhere in the city, by a different developer who had no family history with the river, would most likely look a lot different. The Walkers have given a tremendous amount of thought over probably 10 years+ of where each bronzed piece they place in TC should go.

Not trying to give you an old hx lesson, NCM101 - I just wasn't sure you knew how that specific waterfall design came to be. If you already knew, I apologize for this reminder of the information.

MSR
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Old 04-05-2009, 03:19 AM
 
8,440 posts, read 11,952,459 times
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Smile Eastern and Western Idaho Don't Have to Be the Same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by twinprism View Post
Do you guys cheerleading Idaho Falls growth want to look like Meridian? Not that I'm jealous of growth, quite the contrary.

Here's some healthy counterpoint from a Pocatello perspective, from a local real estate agency which I won't quote my source because I don't want it to look like an advertisement and this information is widely available.

"Pocatello traditionally enjoys a steady annual growth rate of about one percent—wonderful for attracting new businesses while allowing for appropriate planning and infrastructure growth. Pocatello has been spared the explosive growing pains of other Idaho communities in recent years, growing at a manageable pace while retaining its "small town" character. Refer to the chart below to analyze trends in growth over the past century in both Pocatello and Bannock County."

Census Bannock co. Pocatello change %change
2000 75,565 51,466 +5,386 +1.2%
1990 66,026 46,080 -260 -0.1%
1980 65,421 46,340 +6,304 +1.6%
1970 52,200 40,036 +11,502 +4.0%
1960 49,342 28,534 +2,403 +0.9%
1950 41,745 26,131 +7,998 +4.4%
1940 34,759 18,133 +1,662 +1.0%
1930 31,266 16,471 +1,470 +1.0%
1920 27,532 15,001 +5,891 +6.5%
1910 19,242 9,110 +5,064 +12.5%
1900 11,702 4,046 - -

Current census estimates show current Pocatello population approaching 55,000 with adjoining Chubbuck at about 10,000
Twinprism,

I've always respected your posts and usually agree with them (at least 90%+) of the time. Please do not be offended when I ask you for the source of the info you posted above. Just wondering if my tired eyes missed it or you forgot to add it.

I can't speak for anyone else but myself, and a little bit for IFGuy, (since we became friends 3-4 years ago, and mostly discuss planned, smart growth for the area, companies looking at the area etc.). IFGuy can certainly disagree with anything I write that doesn't reflect his current viewpoint.

You make an excellent point: Meridian. I'll add Caldwell and all of Canyon County spilling over from Ada County and who knows where else it will go next. I don't think either IFGuy or I have ever said we wish to have the growth and PROBLEMS that Meridian/Caldwell/Nampa and the endless "burbs" metro Boise has, in Idaho Falls or Bonneville County.

I do think both IFGuy and I, as well as several others, have learned watching Boise/Meridian/Caldwell etc. I suspect you have a lot of info too, Twinprism, having observed probably some of the same problems we've seen.

One huge difference I see is I don't know if Meridian/Nampa could survive with the population they have, without Boise's infrastructure. Bonneville Metro is planning now about transportation issues for the future. Bonneville is addressing issues Boise is now trying to get through, such as the light rail. I honestly can't say what Bannock County is doing about planning smart growth. However, I'd be greatly surprised if everyone in ID hadn't learned from the sprawl and irregular zoning in Canoyon County and "West Boise," as IFGuy has written.

I've not read anywhere that any other city in Idaho wants to compete for the largest population with Boise. That being said, some of us know what could happen in Bonneville County when a certain population mark is reached. If life can be easier and more comfortable, why not look forward to reaching that mark?

I have found your comments interesting that your business is growing. From what I've read, if I understood you correctly, the growth in Bonneville County has a lot to do with your business growth. Would you prefer to have your business restricted simply to the work available in Bannock County? I guess I'm just a little confused of why you wouldn't think the growth in Idaho Falls is good for you, your company and the residents in eastern ID. Would you please explain further as I don't seem to understand.

That being said, I'm still a very strong believer that those moving to the area should have employment or acceptance in school prior to moving. One of the lessons I think many have learned is from the U. of Washington study that showed when Boise started to boom, so many kids were latch key kids and how many people had to have second or third incomes to meet their expenses.

I see no reason eastern ID cities need to repeat the mistakes that have happened in Canyon/Ada counties. Smart growth can be good growth, IMHO.

Thanks for your thoughts, TwinPrism, and others. It's good discuss our concerns for the future.

MSR
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Old 04-05-2009, 06:05 PM
 
2,779 posts, read 7,039,020 times
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Maybe I am too well travelled for my own good. I'm not saying it's not a nice fountain, but I hardly think it is going to sway anyone to relocate to the area. And any fountain surrounded by auto roads doesn't really do it for me.


Last edited by norcalmom101; 04-05-2009 at 06:21 PM..
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Old 04-06-2009, 01:55 AM
 
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MSR, ( and IFGuy)

Great post I enjoy this discussion,

I deliberately did not include my source for the numbers above, because they came from a Pocatello real estate office, but I did verify the numbers with the online estimates published by the census bureau. http://www.census.gov/popest/cities/tables/SUB-EST2007-04-16.xls (broken link)

My concern comes from a couple areas. As an outsider, I see some of the same growth patterns in starting in Idaho Falls that happened in Meridian and Nampa which concerns me somewhat. I am unaware of current plans in Boneville county but I'm glad to hear transportation issues have and are being actively acted on. I have seen some positive steps (Sunnyside Road renovation and new freeway interchange) but I'd like them to be more even more proactive as much as then can with the difficult task of predicting future growth. It is much easier and cheaper to have a comprehensive plan than try to retrofit after the fact. I think it is harder when surburbs/cities start running into each other, each with their own zoning laws and governing bodies.

I have nothing against the growth in Idaho Falls, I would just like to see it handled proactively with citizens commitees to plan for growth, particularly open spaces, transportation, and crime and I think that is easier when the growth is at a slower sustainable rate. I do welcome any job growth to enhance the economic prosperity in E. Idaho, especially in the fields of alternative energy and technology. Retail doesn't do much for me, but it is important to some and and important part of our economy. I am trying hard to support locally owned businesses. I would like to support local initiatives to help our neighbors grow our economy from within.

I guess I'm not aware as I should be about the intracacies of the census numbers and what that means, but I could see how those numbers could definitely impact investment in an area. Perhaps I missed it but I'm curious, what particular milestone are you hoping for?

Perhaps it is natural when there are two similarly sized cites so close together that there is some healthy competition, but one thing I've noticed time and time again is the attitude towards Pocatello from many in Idaho residents is negative, and I get that a lot from Idaho Falls residents especially (but not too often on this forum). I have found many good things about Pocatello, so I kind of see myself as an advocate, as there are not many from Pocatello that are active on this forum. Pocatello may have earned it poor reputation in the past but I have seen many positive changes in the past 12 years or so that I have lived here and find it a wonderful place to live. I guess I would like to see more cooperation and less derision, but perhaps that is human nature to compete. Sorry to bring this up here, I think it probably belongs in another thread. I enjoy the contrast between Pocatello and Idaho Falls. The cities really do have a much different feel to them and I hope their differences strengthen East Idaho as a whole. I like being able to have so many more choices less than an hour away.

I certainly hope you are right and we can learn from some of the problems in "West Boise" and grow and prosper while still maintaining our small town feel. Let's do all we can to preserve the way of life we enjoy while sharing with our new neighbors.

Thanks for all your input and local knowedge, I appreciate all the great info you bring to this forum.

Best Regards,
twinprism
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Old 04-06-2009, 01:40 PM
 
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Twinprism,

I can't say that I dislike Poky as much as I used to, I couldn't live there, let's put it that way.It looks like an old midwest rail town stuck in the middle of the Rockies. Poky will get better and the way that happens is for it shy away from heavy industry and switch to high tech, which is happening. After all Poky is E. Idahos manufacturing hub, it's airport is more of a freight airport, and the railroad that runs in from Boise and SLC has made it a rail town.

I remember when Hoku decided to build their plant in Poky as opposed to Idaho Falls, MSR and I were both upset about it and couldn't see why they chose Poky. The more I look at that choice now the more I understand how it will be a good thing for East Idaho. Seeing high tech alternative energy industry locate anywhere in the area makes the area stronger, better economy all around, and creates better jobs everywhere. We wouldn't want all the high paying jobs in one city that would shoot the cost of living through the roof. That is one part of Idaho Falls that has remained unchanged mostly through this growth.
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Old 04-06-2009, 07:40 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IFGuy View Post
Twinprism,

I can't say that I dislike Poky as much as I used to, I couldn't live there, let's put it that way.It looks like an old midwest rail town stuck in the middle of the Rockies. Poky will get better and the way that happens is for it shy away from heavy industry and switch to high tech, which is happening. After all Poky is E. Idahos manufacturing hub, it's airport is more of a freight airport, and the railroad that runs in from Boise and SLC has made it a rail town.

I remember when Hoku decided to build their plant in Poky as opposed to Idaho Falls, MSR and I were both upset about it and couldn't see why they chose Poky. The more I look at that choice now the more I understand how it will be a good thing for East Idaho. Seeing high tech alternative energy industry locate anywhere in the area makes the area stronger, better economy all around, and creates better jobs everywhere. We wouldn't want all the high paying jobs in one city that would shoot the cost of living through the roof. That is one part of Idaho Falls that has remained unchanged mostly through this growth.
Poky has been shying away from heavy industry and cleaning up those industrial areas since I've moved here. I has been a night and day difference, though there is still a ways to go. Poky has a lot to offer when you get past the rail yards. I can't get enough of the wilderness areas right in my backyard. I much prefer living in Poky, though I've yet to live in Idaho Falls. I've almost taken a couple jobs in I.F., and I think I would commute but I guess I'm strange.

I agree that what is good for any city in Eastern Idaho is good for the whole area. I'm optimistic about the Areva plant in IF. Plus, if things keep going the way they do all the Hoku folks will have to go to IF to shop if they can't find what they want at Walmart, Costco, Fred Meyer's or Sears or many of our fine locally owned businesses. That's one thing I live about Poky, less chains and more mom and pop stores.. I just hope we can keep them alive through this downturn.
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Old 04-09-2009, 11:44 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pokykid View Post
That's like being excited that your baby poops more that the other guys. Neither city will break the 100K mark within the next million years. People can't live with that much smug. Again, Idaho sucks. It makes me laugh that people see another quiznos or a pita pit! And there's more jobs. Its all the same, just more for you to spend your minnimum wage on. Just like pocatello, just like twin. Just like boise. It's a western state that collects a big welfare check and is a drain on the economy. why? becuase we can be! Yay for Idaho!
Wow! What do you say about a statement like that!

I'll go first. These developments with Areva and Hoku, we could even throw Premier Technology in here as well, are bringing in higher paying jobs. Idaho State University, BYU-I, EITC, and CAES are training the next generation, and are ever increasing their programs to accomadate new, promising technology that need a workforce.

The above mentioned all have one common goal, higher paying jobs.

Most of our area seniors in high school have in the past taken their next steps in life, out of East Idaho, because there have not been opportunities for them. This will change as time goes on and there are not any quick fixes. Things are looking better than when I graduated for sure, and when my children graduate, this area will look even better then.

Organizations such as Grow Idaho Falls are interested in bringing high paying jobs to the area and are not worried about the next Quiznos or Pita Pit, eateries and retail will open up shop no matter what. When there is residential growth, it is followed shortly by commercial service growth, that's the way it is in the real estate business. Why else has Ammon had such huge success with Wal Mart, Target, Kohls, Walgreens, and countless others, great location yes, but better because of how much it has and will continue to grow.

You are right Pokykid, these jobs are minimum wage or above, but they still do provide jobs.

As the area "grows up", better opportunites will become avaliable for many. After all, it hasn't been more than 15-20 years since this area has really begun to see a "growth spurt". East Idaho as a region is starting to come into it's own, there will be challanges that come along with it but it won't grow so fast that it will get out of hand.
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