Idaho vs California (Boise, Paul: home builders, buy, closing)

[HDL]

Not everyone left CA due to the so called 'invasion' or that CA was so horrible. Some of us left for economic reasons . I guess it's the same reason that a lot of born and raised Idahoans have decided to sell off their land to developers .

Geesh, I wonder if Idahoans really cherish Idaho as much as I've heard, seeing that so many have sold acres and acres of land for BIG BUCKS to out of state developers ??? Oh, maybe someone put a GUN to their head !!

p.s.
Carl, best wishes on your move. If you need some additional relo info, please feel free to PM me. I'm from the same area as you and NO, I am not a Realtor !

Originally Posted by SergeantL

The real reason people are leaving California has very little to do with the "invasion from the south." The primary reason is the cost of housing and the demise of the middle class. I was in law enforcement for 35-years. I was VERY fortunate in that I bought a house well before prices went insane; unfortunately, the new cops are in a bad position. Few can afford to live in the community. Some were commuting well over 100 miles each way, and I know of a few who were living in small trailers or splitting the cost on a small apartment and flying out of state on the weekends to be with their families. It’s not just the cops. It’s also the firefighters, nurses, teachers, and others critical to the public infrastructure.

[pimit2]

What's happening in Idaho is a reflection of what is happening to our country. Greed has become more important than values and quality of life issues.

Our shameful Congress has turned its back on the masses and reacts only to big business and other interest groups who grease their palms. Our local politicians, including those who are empowered to plan and enforce the sensibility of expansion, respond to the almighty dollar and those who offer it.

Idaho will face unencumbered growth that will effect the lifestyle of those who live here. In many cases, growth will be poorly planned and will hurt our communities and change the face of this wonderful and previously "invisible" state.

I, for one, cannot bring myself to blame Californians or, for that matter, relocators from any other state. I blame greed....a terrible sickness that has overtaken and seriously damaged this once near-perfect democracy of logic and law.

God bless us.


pimit2 (Bob)

[Anchorless]

Thanks for the response; you make some great points.

Originally Posted by SergeantL

California has in effect done this under Proposition 13. It has done nothing to curb growth. New buyers pay substantially more taxes than long time residents. It is also one of the reasons my son had to move to Idaho. You end up penalizing your children when they want to buy.

I wonder if this is not a function of location and economy, though. I'd argue that Idaho is still not the sought-after destination that California was and is. I think that California's economy, for the most part, can more readily support a higher cost of living (it having two major world cities, economic and cultural hubs, etc., as well as one of the world's most productive agricultural regions).

I agree that higher taxation on new residents (not home buyers) wouldn't keep people from coming here, and may very well only keep lower income people from relocating here (which isn't so much a goal of mine). However, I do think a tweaked model of this sort of taxation (in addition to a higher second-home tax) would help more than the status quo.

Originally Posted by SergeantL

Most of what you propose here, with the exception of higher college tuition and school classification for non-residents, violates the Equal Protection Clause of the Constitution. It is similar to the very reasons we had a Boston Tea Party.

I'm not sure about this - it would subject to Constitutional interpretation. What are you thinking here, and why would a different rate for vehicle registration and drivers licensing for new residents be different than a tuition classification for a university?

As I see it the primary argument set forth for resident v. non-resident tuition is that state tax-payers subsidize the cost of education, and therefore a certain quota of resident admissions is asked for. Could not the same argument be made for our transportation services?

Originally Posted by SergeantL

You might be successful with this, but the current land owners looking to cash in will fight you tooth and nail. As in California, farmers and ranchers view their property as retirement capital. If you start threatening their ability to sell and use the cash in their retirement years, you will have a gunfight on your hands.

Eh, a little too much hyperbole here. Planning and zoning has always been a balancing act between private property rights and public interests; some jurisdictions favor one, others favor the other. I think most try to strike a sensible balance.

Though Idaho has historical favored private property rights, I think its about time we start reexamining those views, and look for sensible compromises to resist rampant growth, to grow intelligently and responsible, and to preserve private rights.

I'm especially convinced that our water should only be owned and controlled by locals. I had in my hands just today a document of ownership transfer between an Idaho individual and a California bank. I don't think I have to spend time elaborating how problematic this is.

Originally Posted by SergeantL

My point is that many Idaho residents moved to California and helped to deplete the quality of life in that state. Idaho did nothing to create an economic base to entice its residents to stay. It depended on California to provide jobs for its children. Idaho has a responsibility to compensate California if it wants to force these residents to stay in California to ensure its own quality of life. In other words, all of the states you mention have no problem allowing their residents to immigrate to California, but they don’t want to shoulder the responsibility when they and/or their many descendants want to return.

I still don't follow this argument, but I'll bite - keeping Californian people in California may be restitution enough. You're helping to keep skilled workers and/or a productive and tax-paying middle class in California.

At any rate, that's all silly. California can come up with its own solutions to keep people out, to make it more affordable to live there, etc. It has its own unique problems that I'm not savvy enough to elaborate on. But if nothing else this is an exercise in federalism, which was always the intent of establishing a republic with individual states. Certain states display certain values and qualities, have their own laws and regulations, and are allowed some degree of its own governance. Isolationism isn't anything new - Texas and several of the New England states have tried their hand at it. I don't propose anything that radical - I simply want to figure out a way to slow growth to preserve the quality of life for us all.

Thanks, and I'm eager for your (or anyone else's) responses.

[Anchorless]

Originally Posted by HDL

Geesh, I wonder if Idahoans really cherish Idaho as much as I've heard, seeing that so many have sold acres and acres of land for BIG BUCKS to out of state developers ??? Oh, maybe someone put a GUN to their head !!

Eh, it's really not as simple as that.

My grandparents were all but pressured into selling their farmland in Twin Falls. They really had no other options but to sell, and I guess they were somewhat harassed by a few lawyers into selling. I'll have to ask about that story.

For many its the same story, especially those with farmland which has had growth creep up or around it. Yes, there are some who have cashed out to the highest bidder, but I really doubt the numbers of these are that great. I'd like to find some stats on this, but where to look?

In a great many cases, especially around Boise, the city and county have been doing land-swaps, and trying their best to purchase land to set aside for preservation. But often that comes at a cost - quid pro quo - and the developers take what they can get.

[Vinyard Meadows]

I'm from Santa Cruz California originally. That is where I was born, graduated from the University. But I found great work in Seattle and worked there for 10 years. I moved to Caldwell/Nampa when my husband was offered a good job.

The chalet we bought was less than 100k in 2001. It was HUGE with 1/3 acre and a mountain view near town, but quiet on a dead-end road.. Remarkable.

But the ONLY employer that would hire me was Micron. Local businesses didn't call me back ... and I have a terrific work record. Great referrences. A good education. I was unhirable as a Californian until Micron offered me a job. Micron could hardly hire me fast enough. I was offered a good position the same day that I took the test providing that I had all my transcripts sent to them ($70 for 3 transcripts).

The people are usually polite to my face, but some real estate agents seemed to take offence even while they were making money from us and all these Californians willing to pay 800k for a house because they just sold their CA houses for 2 million. Californians often buy several homes at one time and have raised home prices by double and tripple in 10 years.

Local moms now have to work to afford the more expensive housing. Fewer moms at home. More kid problems. More traffic. More crime. Directly and indirectly, locals can't miss the change for the worse. The new architecture by developers is a problem. In Eagle it may be attractive, but not elsewhere. I see rows of garages. Garages that are almost identical. New 3-car garages and these homes have very little charm from the street. The homes look pretty much the same from the street now. The old town and new architecture is not for the better.

You can't miss the influences of CA. Interesting businesses. More spas, more stores, more choices for all but the moms that now have to work. For the kids that now can't go straight home after school but have to go to other people to see that they are safe and productive. More police. More new schools.

About cussing. The only people cussing around me are the 70-yr-old native Idahoans. I dunno why. But they cuss loud, they cuss often, and if someone objects, they are ready with a loud "F-you!" The non-natives aren't cussing around me, and they'd hear about it from me if they did.

Californians drive differently. That's for sure. Not better, not worse. But very different. I think that native Idahoans drive far better in town. Non-natives drive better on the highway. Something about speed it seems to me. Native folk tend to move into my lane on the freeway where I AM. Not in front of me, but where I AM. Some aren't used to looking beside themselves. But natives wait at the 4-way stops 'till EVEYBODY stops at the 4-way stop. I've never seen that on the coast. On the coast, people stop, look, and go. They don't wait for car #1, then car #2, then car #3 to come to a full stop. Is that in the driver's manual? I think it is a tradition of good taste. Manners. No need to rush anymore you people that come from elsewhere. Slow down and live longer.

[C_ferreira]

I haven't been to California enough to compare it to Idaho. In the northern part of the state, we deal mostly with people from Washington. We get along with them well enough.

[Sage of Sagle]

Originally Posted by C_ferreira

I haven't been to California enough to compare it to Idaho. In the northern part of the state, we deal mostly with people from Washington. We get along with them well enough.

Except for the way they drive....hehehe.....and I hear that they complain about Oregon drivers, who complain about California drivers...see...I KNEW it was all California's fault.

[cottonwood2420]

Originally Posted by KittyToy

Can someone please explain to me if it's a REALLY BIG DEAL for someone to move to Idaho from California? I've looked over some of these threads posted by Idahoans {?} practically cursing the Californians migration towards the north. Nonetheless. I'm am somewhat afraid for my relocation to Pocatello now. Will I be shunned for my language, and speak? I move on October 1st from San Diego...and aside from the culture-shock....grrrrr I hope it won't be hard to make friends and fit in {25 years old...wanting to marry and start a family with my boyfriend}

Of course not.

[Paul Smith]

I'm responding to the Sage of Sagle's message. My wife and I are California Transplants and have spoken to more Californians in Sagle than Idahoans. Our nearest neighbor has a "Don't Move Here" bumper sticker, but is married to a man from NJ. Another one of our nearby neighbors lived right across the street from us for about ten years right here in Citrus Heights.

We have only been shown the "I'm #1" sign once while driving with California plates on, and that was from a pickup stuffed with boisterous young men who might have done it just because I am old and slow. Driving within the speed limits has certainly garnered plenty of nonverbal communication for me here in California.

I can stand on my front porch in Sagle and listen and the only sound I hear much of the time is my tinnitus. When we pull out onto the asphalt road, we might have to wait for a spell while a couple of neighbors visit through the windows of their pickup trucks. But nobody honks, gestures or screams. If there is enough room on the shoulder, cars will ease past without more than a nod or wave. The slightest delay in traffic here in California generates honking, waving and rude gestural language.

I spent six months in Bonner County developing our Bottle Bay property and never heard a policeman on a loud speaker in a helicopter telling me to get back in the house and watch for an armed and dangerous man jumping fences. That is a regular occurrance here in Northern California.

My son called me last week while he was on his way to work in Sagle. He said he was having a little problem again with the traffic. It seems there was a confused and frightened deer that he had to stop for -- no cars though on his ten mile trip to work. I was in his truck with him last fall when we had a similar problem. A about a dozen-and-a-half turkeys were having some sort of committee meeting while walking in the middle of the road. We had to slow to a crawl for almost a minute while they voted on which way to turn off the road. Here in California, we live within a stone's throw of a ten lane freeway that moves at a crawl 24/7.

Life is exciting in Sagle, but it isn't because the Idahoans are trying to exterminate the the Californians. Just a couple of miles further into Citrus Heights however, the Crips and the Bloods are indeed trying to kill each other. They use real weapons and draw real blood. It is not just some TV cop show.

California has become ungovernable and unliveable. I can say that with some authority because I am a native who spent his entire working career as a civil servant. The problems in California are what sent us looking for a better place to live. For us, Sagle fit the bill.

I sympathize with the Idahoans who did not get a chance to buy the property we bought, because we had bags of the unreasonable and unsustainable property profits (equity) you are now reading about. When we were looking for a better life, we were not looking for ways to victimize Idahoans -- we were just looking for a better life.

My wife and I have tried to listen to the complaints of Idahoans who have been irritated by, and even at times disadvantaged by, California Equity Refugees like ourselves. We are going to lead quiet, unobtrusive lives in our retirement. We expect to add more cash to the local economy than we take out. We hope to blend into the life of the community, not change it.

[Torrie]

hmmmmm, sounds very similar to what I've been saying Paul. Idaho wins in many ways, they get better quality people and extra dollars pumped into their communities. Most people that move here just want a better quality of life.