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Old 01-20-2011, 05:14 AM
 
Location: Oregon
129 posts, read 581,205 times
Reputation: 196

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I was shocked by the news today. It seems someone tried to detonate a sophisticated explosive device at a Martin Luther King Jr parade. I am a right-wing conservative Jewish guy who wants to move to Couer d'Alene, but the old history of the Aryan nation stronghold around Hayden does still give me a bad feeling in my gut. I was wondering if anyone here can tell me there opinions about nazi/racist activity in the area? I am rather conservative and don't like living in liberal areas , so I thought I would fit in better in a place like Northern Idaho. However, being Jewish, I obviously have problems with neo-nazis and want to avoid them altogether. What are people's honest feeling about their activity in Northern Idaho/Northeast Washington?

Here's the article about what could have been a very tragic and horrible event in Spokane:
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Old 01-20-2011, 10:36 AM
 
674 posts, read 1,452,408 times
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They'll say it's isolated and extremely limited and only makes the news because the papers want a story... but you'll notice there is a story in the the area almost once a month, and that to me is enough to make a pattern.

I'm not from Northern Idaho but I have friends up that way, and while they say you never notice the element and it's for the most part driven to the extreme fringes, how many of these incidents, or KKK snowmen with nooses, or parades, a nooses showing up on people's porches, or other pseudo demonstrations will they tolerate up there? Maybe I'm just sensitive to it but don't know what I'm talking about.

You never really hear about these things happening in Southern Idaho.
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Old 01-20-2011, 11:42 AM
 
4,923 posts, read 11,141,131 times
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You are, of course, assuming that's what it was aimed at...and of course, your mind does go there. But, you know what they say about assuming...

However, there were news reports of another one found in a suitcase the next day. If so, that lessens the likelihood that the motive was race-driven.

It may be your run-of-the-mill nutjob, or al-queda-type, or you may be right and it might be a racist nutjob. Plenty of nutjobs to go around everywhere...
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Old 01-20-2011, 02:01 PM
 
Location: Coeur d Alene, ID
820 posts, read 1,728,663 times
Reputation: 856
Truthfully, its still everywhere. Where you are, your family is, and where you want to move Here is is just hyper-overinflated by the news because AT ONE TIME we did have a problem. Come here and stay for a bit and see. You dont have as many problems as the news makes it out to be, this is a slow area, so they have to do something to boost their ratings.
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Old 01-20-2011, 02:20 PM
 
Location: Moscow
2,220 posts, read 3,851,634 times
Reputation: 3118
This is a topic that has been discussed a lot on this forum, Mr.SmithW. I urge you to read some of those threads. They usually end with:
1. People from the area pointing out the many things that have been done locally to combat the racist image. This included making it impossible for the neo-nazis to march, bankrupting them and taking over their compound, etc.
2. People living in the area claiming it is no worse, and possibly better, than other places they have lived.
3. People from outside the area claiming that any recent events show a continuing pattern. Case in point, HP1167 mentions "...incidents, or KKK snowmen with nooses, or parades, a nooses showing up on people's porches, or other pseudo demonstrations." These have happened during a period of over 10 years. Nasty and despicable? Yes. A pattern? Perhaps. Certainly not a pattern with the frequency implied by HP1167. I'm unaware of a frequency anywhere near monthly. I challenge Hp1167 to come up with 10 incidents that happened in 2010.

Unfortunately, there are racists everywhere. I have not personally witnessed overt racism in north Idaho. I don't think north Idaho is any worst than other places. I live in the area, and recommend it with no reservations.
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Old 01-20-2011, 02:40 PM
 
674 posts, read 1,452,408 times
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10 years? The incidents I describe have happened over the course of the past year or two. See past CDF threads for proof.

This incident.
The snowman incident was in December.
The noose incident was in Sept of 2009.

That's all I'm saying. I don't live there so I don't know the day to day, but I hear stories frequently enough. Anyone is free to search the Spokesman Review website (I just did, and a lot of articles pull up), or contact any of the Human Rights agencies or the universities up there for more accurate information.
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Old 01-20-2011, 02:56 PM
 
Location: Moscow
2,220 posts, read 3,851,634 times
Reputation: 3118
I really don't need to look things up on CDF for proof. I live in the area, and am well versed in local happenings.

You are correct. Those two have happened recently. You claimed things happen almost monthly, and also mentioned parades and other pseudo demonstrations. Parades, in particular, haven't happened for about 10 years. Thus my mentioning the items you listed have happened over a period of 10 years. Actually, I think the last parade was about 12 years ago.

If things happen nearly monthly, you should have no problem listing 9 or 10 items that happened in 2010. Just to be sporting, I'll even mention one more incident that happened in 2010 (I think, maybe 2009). Some racist propaganda was distributed. That leaves you just 7 more incidents to find if you wish to back up your "almost once a month" claim.

I understand you hear stories. I get that. Myself and other north Idahoans are sick of being tarnished by stories resulting from incidents that happened a long time ago. Incidents we fought to stop, and are not common to the area.
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Old 01-20-2011, 03:30 PM
 
Location: Coeur d Alene, ID
820 posts, read 1,728,663 times
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well said Keim
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Old 01-20-2011, 04:58 PM
 
8,389 posts, read 8,593,679 times
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I don't immediately see a summary of relevant incidents in this region to address the challenge. But I'll offer the following notes on the general topic.

The Southern Poverty Law Center counted 932 active "hate groups" in the United States in 2009. Hate Map | Southern Poverty Law Center
Not everyone would necessarily agree with all they include as hateful or, further, dangerous. Probably some have not been identified. Some want to be off the radar and take precautions; others want to use publicity as a main weapon. Still it is some data to start with.

Idaho had 9 listed or a bit less than 1% of the national total. Idaho's population is about 0.5% of total national population. One could say that "hate groups" in Idaho are few or one could say they are somewhat overrepresented. In the west the number of groups is highest in the biggest states, while per capita they are listed as highest in Idaho, Montana and Nevada.

Oregon has 10 listed groups. Does that mean they are about equally prevalent as in Idaho based on number of groups numbers or or only half as prevalent based on per capita data? Group numbers alone doesn't get at members or folks on the fringes or more people influenced by the group or actions or future threat and severity of threat... but I don't have a good quick summary of the rest of the important details. You might select to be cautious and say that the number of listed groups is not that good a basis to make overall judgments. It may say more about how many people wanted to lead their own organizations instead of be in someone else's for various reasons including independence, ego and money-making opportunities.

Of the 9 groups listed for Idaho, 6 were said to be based in northern Idaho, 1 in southern Idaho and 2 not specified. But of the 9 called "active", only one has an "intelligence report" writeup online at this time and the notes on the group in the report trail off about 8-10 years ago. Are they really still active / very active or just not being that actively monitored?

Every state has at least one group listed. It is not just a northern Idaho, southern or "conservative state" or rural thing. Probably the research effort extended until that occurred to make that political point. Some states have more groups and / or more per capita than Idaho and others less. It appears Idaho is in the bottom third on number of listed groups but top third on number per capita. But it ultimately should get back to how accurate and current the list is and what is actually happening.

Different people may come to different conclusions on the levels of national threat and local threat. I'd say it is probably hard to be precise about relative threats unless you are in the fields of law enforcement or hate monitoring... or the field of hate and violence making. It can change quickly and be more of a problem in one area for awhile and then another. Still threats will probably be heavier in some places than others given history. But the monitoring and action in the face of the threats will probably be higher where there have been past flareups too. I think certain Idaho groups and really the majority in general should get some substantial credit for actions and signals they've sent back to these groups. The threat is not gone but it probably has been less in the region than in the 90s. Old news can linger too long and obscure progress but it shouldn't forgotten entirely. This a difficult time some will try to exploit and the problem may never be fully gone from the country.

"Hate" is probably not that rare, depending on the standard applied. It exists outside of labeled hate groups. People may vary in what they consider "hate" vs principled conviction and personal experience in others. And they might vary in what they feel and allow themselves (or friends & family members) to feel with or without using that label with regard to themselves. It can co-habitate to some degree with better values. Hate that turns to violence is the most severe problem but the problems are deep and fairly broad given how society is and has been in America and elsewhere and thru time. Do what you can to avoid it or fight it, pre-exempt it or trump it.

Last edited by NW Crow; 01-20-2011 at 06:16 PM..
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Old 01-20-2011, 09:48 PM
 
159 posts, read 352,209 times
Reputation: 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by skinem View Post
However, there were news reports of another one found in a suitcase the next day. If so, that lessens the likelihood that the motive was race-driven.
There was not "another one" because all that was found was an abandoned suitcase full of clothes.
Suitcase Closes Streets In Downtown Spokane - KHQ Right Now - News and Weather for Spokane and North Idaho |
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